Your Car Knows When You Gain Weight

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Uwe

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Opinion piece in the NYT by Bill Hanvey, President and CEO of the Auto Care Association:
Your Car Knows When You Gain Weight

Personally, I think he's exaggerating a bit. How exactly is the car supposed to know when the driver has gained weight? It may be able to measure the front-seat passenger's weight using the Passenger Occupancy Detection sensor, but last I looked, driver's seats didn't have such sensors because the car assumes that a driver is always present. OK, it could base this the total mass of the car, which it could calculate from acceleration vs. power applied, but then how would it differentiate between a weight gain/loss and some change in the amount of crap stored in the trunk?

Then there's this: "Modern cars collect as much as 25 gigabytes of data per hour". I'm sure they generate that much data and more, but I see no evidence that they collect (i.e. store) it, nor is anyone likely to be willing to pay to transmit that much data via the cellular networks.

That said, the point he's trying to raise is valid. Who owns that data? Who should and shouldn't have access to it?

-Uwe-
 
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D-Dub

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car just has to calculate the weight by comparing suspension change between when the driver door opens and closes.

like the remake of 'italian job' figuring out which truck has the gold.
 
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Uwe

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car just has to calculate the weight by comparing suspension change between when the driver door opens and closes.
Very few cars have suspensions sophisticated enough to make that possible. Steel springs and conventional shocks still dominate. I suppose ride-height sensors are getting more common though with fancier headlights that need to be aimed dynamically. Question is are they sensitive enough to see a few pounds worth of difference?

-Uwe-
 
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DrPeter

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Hi,

I think I will keep the 1996 VR6 GTI, it does not collect data, has no radio and it does not care if I loose or gain weight.. :p

Personally, I would have to say the owner of the vehicle owns the data, it is their vehicle, right? I never signed or seen anyone sign a End-User License Agreement when they buy a new or used vehicle. Maybe that will change?

Maybe in the future there will be an 'opt out' option? but without (hopefully) limiting functions that you have paid for? I may be behind a bit on what is been said and what is happening on this topic, so if I am mistaken, let me know.

Ugh... I just had a thought ... I can visualize manufactures will be injecting personalized advertisements in self drive vehicles of the future...
... and these vehicles will be on high speed limited access roads where I can not drive my 'ethanol free dino-fuel' GTI on their 'safe space' roads... :facepalm:


Photo of the driver-less concept vehicle during my visit to: Transparent Factory in Dresden, Germany



See you in the future or maybe in the past, I will be taking the scenic route

drpeter

ps... Speaking of owning... and I want access to my PIN codes! my rides, my pins. Like a radio code right?
 
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Jack@European_Parts

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That said, the point he's trying to raise is valid. Who owns that data? Who should and shouldn't have access to it?

-Uwe-

Isn't a vehicle considered an unsearchable without lawful warrant or effectively a dwelling & with a title of conformity & as a vessel or traveling "home" & an expectation is achieved, so I'd say what's generated or inside your home or residence or extended dwelling, is your property and subject to privacy rights, how about you?
Wouldn't the certificate of conformity application be required with lawful public disclosure from the NHTSA, EPA or CARB might shed light on this too, no?
 
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DrPeter

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Isn't a vehicle considered an unsearchable without lawful warrant or effectively a dwelling & with a title of conformity & as a vessel or traveling "home" & an expectation is achieved,
Unless... the 'vessel' is within the jurisdiction of the United States and is on navigable waters of such jurisdiction, then the United States Coast Guard officers "may at any time go on board of any vessel subject to the jurisdiction, or to the operation of any law, of the United States, address inquiries to those on board, examine the ship’s documents and papers, and examine, inspect, and search the vessel and use all necessary force to compel compliance. 14 U.S. Code § 89 - Law enforcement

Since Volkswagen Group does not make amphibious vehicles anymore you do not need to worry about the blue lights pulling you over :)

drpeter
 
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jyoung8607

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Photo of the driver-less concept vehicle during my visit to: Transparent Factory in Dresden, Germany
Wish I'd known you were going. Did you sign up for the good tour? If you send your Phaeton VIN to the right folks (and I would have rented you mine for a day for a beer :)) you get an individual owner's behind-the-glass tour, or at least you used to. I should imagine they'd do the same for one of your Bentley VINs though since they were also produced there.
 
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DrPeter

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Wish I'd known you were going. Did you sign up for the good tour? If you send your Phaeton VIN to the right folks (and I would have rented you mine for a day for a beer :)) you get an individual owner's behind-the-glass tour, or at least you used to. I should imagine they'd do the same for one of your Bentley VINs though since they were also produced there.


- Hi, well my brother in-law lives in Berlin, so I may go again and will let you guys know. I did take the 6€ tour, we walked the factory floor, saw the last Phaeton that was built there, on display with all the signatures. We did not have time to eat at the restaurant there, they were going to have an event, so we had to leave soon.

A little video I made of the Volkswagen ID with a phone camera ... https://youtu.be/zwAcnI-oBfo


drpeter
 
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symb

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What an abomination :D
But my, is that a VW Polo in the background??? Used to have one MY76 or something, 900cm3 engine.
 
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PanEuropean

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...I should imagine they'd do the same for one of your Bentley VINs though since they were also produced there.
The Bentley vehicles produced in Dresden were all destined for delivery to either Europe or Asia. The factory in Crewe, United Kingdom, produced Bentleys destined for North America, in order to preserve the belief that a Bentley was a British vehicle.

This worked out well in the end: The Americans could keep up their belief that they were buying British cars, and the Europeans were more confident about buying a Bentley (the Flying Spur) because it was produced in Germany and not in the UK. :)

Michael
 
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jyoung8607

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necrothread alert!

Opinion piece in the NYT by Bill Hanvey, President and CEO of the Auto Care Association:
Your Car Knows When You Gain Weight

Personally, I think he's exaggerating a bit. How exactly is the car supposed to know when the driver has gained weight? It may be able to measure the front-seat passenger's weight using the Passenger Occupancy Detection sensor, but last I looked, driver's seats didn't have such sensors because the car assumes that a driver is always present. OK, it could base this the total mass of the car, which it could calculate from acceleration vs. power applied, but then how would it differentiate between a weight gain/loss and some change in the amount of crap stored in the trunk?
Interesting bit of data I ran across recently... dynamically-calculated total vehicle mass is a real thing.

As for individual passenger mass, I think you're right. Absent sensors in the seats, and there's no reason other than for the front passenger, it's uninformed clickbait. You could make some extremely rough inferences if you had suspension level sensors, or tried to model the moment of inertia about center of mass / yaw rate during turns as-compared to actual steering angle, but I think noise would exceed signal...

 
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Hearing Scheduled in Massachusetts on Vehicle Data Access Legislation

Furthering Uwe's start on this post concerning data collection, Auto Care Association is encouraging attendance at the Massachusett's legislature Jan 13 hearing:

Hearing Scheduled in Massachusetts on Vehicle Data Access Legislation
The Joint Committee on Consumer Protection of Massachusetts Legislature has announced that a hearing will be held next Monday, Jan. 13, on legislation that would provide vehicle owners with direct access to their repair data and the ability to send that data to the repair shop of choice.

Currently, all vehicle data generated wirelessly by vehicles is sent directly to the vehicle manufacturer, often without the knowledge of the owner. Due to the increased actions by vehicle manufacturers to lock down access to the on-board diagnostic port—which enables the capture of wireless vehicle data—car companies are quickly becoming the exclusive gatekeepers of critical repair information. Without access to this information, independent repair shops may become unable to compete against franchised dealers when it comes to the repair of late-model vehicles.

The new legislation, proposed as an amendment to the state’s existing Right to Repair law, would require that vehicle owners be notified of the data being generated by their vehicle and have the ability to determine where the repair information is sent—thus ensuring they continue to have a choice in vehicle repair.

The Jan. 13 hearing is the first step in the state’s consideration of the data access legislation. Therefore, in order to demonstrate the importance of this legislation’s impact on ensuring the future of a competitive repair industry, all Auto Care Association members with locations or employees in Massachusetts are urged to attend the hearing. Show your support by wearing your company uniform and bring as many employees as possible. There are no requirements other than being present.

The hearing begins at 1 p.m. ET and will be held in the Gardner Auditorium in the State House located in Boston, Mass.
This is part of the Right to Repair act ongoing battle over who owns the data generated. What control does the driver/owner have over the data and can the owner of the vehicle have the data sent to others/not sent to any? The sales contracts now seem to force the buyer to give up their right to ownership of the data collected. Do consumers really know?

Just thought this thread might go back to Uwe's original post....

Opinion piece in the NYT by Bill Hanvey, President and CEO of the Auto Care Association:
Your Car Knows When You Gain Weight

Personally, I think he's exaggerating a bit. How exactly is the car supposed to know when the driver has gained weight? It may be able to measure the front-seat passenger's weight using the Passenger Occupancy Detection sensor, but last I looked, driver's seats didn't have such sensors because the car assumes that a driver is always present. OK, it could base this the total mass of the car, which it could calculate from acceleration vs. power applied, but then how would it differentiate between a weight gain/loss and some change in the amount of crap stored in the trunk?

Then there's this: "Modern cars collect as much as 25 gigabytes of data per hour". I'm sure they generate that much data and more, but I see no evidence that they collect (i.e. store) it, nor is anyone likely to be willing to pay to transmit that much data via the cellular networks.

That said, the point he's trying to raise is valid. Who owns that data? Who should and shouldn't have access to it?

-Uwe-
 
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