Passat B8 early 2015, Retrofitting A5 front camera + DLA + Lane assist- Finished

   #141  

symb

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Sorry for the waiting sam1754... And I can confirm my car drives by itself for 18-19 seconds from the latest driver involvement.
 
   #142  

golfman

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Hi Symb I have sent you a message.

Thank you

Scott
 
   #143  

symb

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Hi Symb I have sent you a message.

Thank you

Scott
Yes, golfman asked me about the necessity of the sensor fusion cabling between A5 camera and ACC/front assist radar.

To be honest I don't have an answer for this. I frankly wired 'em because it was instructed so by kufatec and some ACC retrofit. I might have given it a thought for a second, but since it wasn't really even near the hardest part of the project I decided to go for it.

I can only speculate that if the A5 camera is not used to boost the range of the adaptive cruise, and if the car doesn't even have ACC (only front assist), is the cabling necessary? Is there some hard-coded function in these modules that if they detect each other via gateway there needs to be the "sensor fusion" direct connect CAN network between them or the result is fault.

Couple of images to explain the whole can bus extended thingy and what it has to say about SF.

http://symb.mbnet.fi/pasuuna/can/canbusext1.jpg

http://symb.mbnet.fi/pasuuna/can/canbusext2.jpg
 
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   #144  

downtime

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The sensor fusion is used for front assist functions. It does not extend the acc range but both sensor complement each others information. For example pedestrian detection uses both camera and acc radar information.

Like written on those SSP inserts you attached, it is a separate bus to prevent other module communication to cause interference.
 
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   #145  

sam1754

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Thanks Symb, I think the time to take over the steering wheel depend on A5 firmware version. Mine is very old!!!
 
   #146  

symb

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The sensor fusion is used for front assist functions. It does not extend the acc range but both sensor complement each others information. For example pedestrian detection uses both camera and acc radar information.

Like written on those SSP inserts you attached, it is a separate bus to prevent other module communication to cause interference.
My bad, I meant to say it boosts the max speed that you can use ACC in, when both front radar and A5 camera are involved, if I remember correctly?
 
   #147  

symb

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Thanks Symb, I think the time to take over the steering wheel depend on A5 firmware version. Mine is very old!!!

That's an interesting theory. Did you compare all the adaptations and coding?

Edit: In fact my car first demanded to take over the steering wheel in like 10 seconds? I don't remember what exactly did I do for it to change... Hmmm. :confused:
 
   #148  

symb

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Ok, thanks for your reply. I wait for Symb adamap because I'm curious but altogether, this menu is really unuseful...
But it's still Symb-s post that made me start this retrofit. So I'm really waiting for adamap and coding A5 5F...please
Sorry sam, I feel partly responsible :D :thumbs:
 
   #149  

downtime

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My bad, I meant to say it boosts the max speed that you can use ACC in, when both front radar and A5 camera are involved, if I remember correctly?
ACC radar type is the factor here. MRR is max 160/h and LRR is 210km/h. I’ve not read or heard that camera would increase the ACC max speed.

Autonomous braking uses the camera information together with radar.
 
   #150  

golfi_vend

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ACC radar type is the factor here. MRR is max 160/h and LRR is 210km/h. I’ve not read or heard that camera would increase the ACC max speed.

Autonomous braking uses the camera information together with radar.
MRR – Middle Range Radar – (up to 160m, up to 160km/h or up to 210km/h in conjunction kamerą Lane Assist) – flat shape.


LRR radars were mounted on early released Golf MK7 and Skoda Octavia 3 (version G, with software limitation up to 160km/h). This type of a radar is more sensitive and more precise then the MRR but it’s also much more expensive – over 900 euro. Audi A3 is still factory equipped with LRR radar as a premium segment representative. Since the middle 2013 VW started mountingt MRR radars in order to cost cuts (price of a brand new MRR unit is around 400 euros). MRR radars has shorter range and sensitivity, in order to provide 210km/h range they need to be used with A5 Front Camera.

To be more precise, you can find three types of radars:
From a polish site.
 
   #151  

sam1754

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Edit: In fact my car first demanded to take over the steering wheel in like 10 seconds? I don't remember what exactly did I do for it to change... Hmmm. :confused:
So, WHAT WHAT WHAT!!! That's THE question!:D

I'll take time to check adaptations but first, I noticed you have enabled Lane assistant menu in 5F (no link with take off time) but that's why you should have some functions that aren't implemented in your car (side assist, curve assist...).
 
   #152  

sam1754

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That's what I thought.
Those two lines are on my A5 adamap but not on your's.

Code:
IDE07596-Personalization of lane dept. warning Cl. 15 on,activated ,1
IDE10871-System mode: lane depart. warn:,Selection via menu ,1
So I think warning menu intensity is linked to the firmware.

I also noticed that you don't have enabled ACC menu on 5F???

Code:
ENG122227-ENG117486-Car_Function_Adaptations_Gen2-menu_display_ACC,not activated ,60
ENG122227-ENG117490-Car_Function_Adaptations_Gen2-menu_display_ACC_after_disclaimer,not activated ,60
ENG122227-ENG117487-Car_Function_Adaptations_Gen2-menu_display_ACC_operation_clamp_15_off,not activated ,60
ENG122227-ENG117488-Car_Function_Adaptations_Gen2-menu_display_ACC_over_threshold_high,activated ,60
ENG122227-ENG117489-Car_Function_Adaptations_Gen2-menu_display_ACC_standstill,not activated ,

ENG122229-ENG117700-Car_Function_List_BAP_Gen2-ACC_0x05,not activated ,64
ENG122229-ENG117701-Car_Function_List_BAP_Gen2-ACC_0x05_msg_bus,Databus extended ,64
 
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   #153  

symb

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That's what I thought.
Those two lines are on my A5 adamap but not on your's.

Code:
IDE07596-Personalization of lane dept. warning Cl. 15 on,activated ,1
IDE10871-System mode: lane depart. warn:,Selection via menu ,1
So I think warning menu intensity is linked to the firmware.

I also noticed that you don't have enabled ACC menu on 5F???

Code:
ENG122227-ENG117486-Car_Function_Adaptations_Gen2-menu_display_ACC,not activated ,60
ENG122227-ENG117490-Car_Function_Adaptations_Gen2-menu_display_ACC_after_disclaimer,not activated ,60
ENG122227-ENG117487-Car_Function_Adaptations_Gen2-menu_display_ACC_operation_clamp_15_off,not activated ,60
ENG122227-ENG117488-Car_Function_Adaptations_Gen2-menu_display_ACC_over_threshold_high,activated ,60
ENG122227-ENG117489-Car_Function_Adaptations_Gen2-menu_display_ACC_standstill,not activated ,

ENG122229-ENG117700-Car_Function_List_BAP_Gen2-ACC_0x05,not activated ,64
ENG122229-ENG117701-Car_Function_List_BAP_Gen2-ACC_0x05_msg_bus,Databus extended ,64
Yes, I don't have ACC in my car. :D
I think I got some time today so I'm going to do some poking with vcds on this hands off intensity.
 
   #154  

downtime

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From a polish site.
I don't think that's correct information.

I propose to read this one, this explains very well the whole driver assist scheme : https://vwts.ru/pps/pps_890253_vw_driver_assistance_systems_eng.pdf

Only thing the front camera adds is an advance warning up to 210km/h with MRR radars but it does not extend the radar range itself. The limitation of the radar is still 160km/h.

Quote :
Multifunctional Front Camera
This camera detects vehicles that may be invisible to the
front radar system by using an actual camera to monitor the
area in front of the vehicle.
The camera monitors the area in front of the vehicle when
stationary, preparing for a restart of the ACC system. It can
also detect lane markings for lane departure warning (Lane
Assist)


I really don't see how it could detect object farther away reliably if it's designed to monitor the front of the vehicle?
 
   #155  

downtime

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Ok, here's the adamap from my Tiguan's A5 module. Exactly the same camera. I have a little bit newer software 272 vs. 271 on Symb's camera.

Otherwise the same and I don't have warning intensity menu visible in driver assist menu in MIB. This is the same what pretty much everyone except Symb are reporting to be the case.

Code:
;SW:3Q0-980-654-H   HW:3Q0-980-654-A ---  Frt Sens. Drv. Assist
;Component:MQB_B_MFK     H06 0272, Coding:000307060000040100220047C056890088000E200040
;EV_MFKBoschMQBB,001001,EV_MFKBoschMQBB_001_VW36.rod
;Saturday,23,November,2019,15:36:11:44693
;VCDS Version: Test 19.9.3 (x64)  Data version: 20190930 DS314.0
;VCID: 3C2A5FB846E14EB7C21-8068

IDE00001-Production mode,Deactivating ,3
IDE00820-ENG130919-Activating and deactivating all development messages-Activation_of_development_messages_EHR,not activated ,1
IDE00820-ENG130920-Activating and deactivating all development messages-Activation_of_development_messages_HCA_lane,not activated ,1
IDE00820-ENG130921-Activating and deactivating all development messages-Activation_of_development_messages_HCA_state,not activated ,1
IDE00820-ENG130922-Activating and deactivating all development messages-Activation_of_development_messages_internal,not activated ,1
IDE00820-ENG130916-Activating and deactivating all development messages-Activation_of_development_messages_lane,not activated ,1
IDE00820-ENG130915-Activating and deactivating all development messages-Activation_of_development_messages_reserved,not activated ,1
IDE00820-ENG130918-Activating and deactivating all development messages-Activation_of_development_messages_VZF/TSR,not activated ,1
IDE00820-ENG130917-Activating and deactivating all development messages-Activation_of_development_messages_WLA,not activated ,1
IDE02332-Deactivate production mode,0 ,3
IDE04160-Direct. stab. assist speed threshold during towing mode,300 km/h,2
IDE04733-Road sign detection fusion mode,Road sign fusion ,1
IDE06425-Roller test bench mode: functional,not activated ,1
IDE07358-Distance to calibration field,1500 mm,2
IDE09375-IDE05717-Axle offset-Front axle transverse position,5.96046e-006 mm,4
IDE09375-IDE05718-Axle offset-Rear axle transverse position,-3.99999 mm,4
IDE09376-IDE02001-Body height wheel house edge-Body height left front wheel house edge,783 mm,8
IDE09376-IDE02002-Body height wheel house edge-Body height right front wheel house edge,783 mm,8
IDE09376-IDE02003-Body height wheel house edge-Body height left rear wheel house edge,790 mm,8
IDE09376-IDE02004-Body height wheel house edge-Body height right rear wheel house edge,790 mm,8
IDE09391-MAS08824-Calibration target position-Target 1: calibration mark 1: x-coordinate,2460 mm,24
IDE09391-MAS08825-Calibration target position-Target 1: calibration mark 1: y-coordinate,742 mm,24
IDE09391-MAS08826-Calibration target position-Target 1: calibration mark 1: z-coordinate,1697 mm,24
IDE09391-MAS08827-Calibration target position-Target 1: calibration mark 2: x-coordinate,2460 mm,24
IDE09391-MAS08828-Calibration target position-Target 1: calibration mark 2: y-coordinate,-742 mm,24
IDE09391-MAS08829-Calibration target position-Target 1: calibration mark 2: z-coordinate,1697 mm,24
IDE09391-MAS08830-Calibration target position-Target 1: calibration mark 3: x-coordinate,2460 mm,24
IDE09391-MAS08831-Calibration target position-Target 1: calibration mark 3: y-coordinate,742 mm,24
IDE09391-MAS08832-Calibration target position-Target 1: calibration mark 3: z-coordinate,1103 mm,24
IDE09391-MAS08833-Calibration target position-Target 1: calibration mark 4: x-coordinate,2460 mm,24
IDE09391-MAS08834-Calibration target position-Target 1: calibration mark 4: y-coordinate,-742 mm,24
IDE09391-MAS08835-Calibration target position-Target 1: calibration mark 4: z-coordinate,1103 mm,24
IDE10407-Personalization of intervention moment at T. 15 on,Last setting ,1
IDE10870-Switch-on condition: lane depart. warn.,on (setting via menu) ,1
IDE10872-Warning intensity: lane depart. warning,Selection via menu ,1
IDE10873-BAP personalization,activated ,1
IDE10924-MAS02479-Initial calibration: result-Yaw angle,-0.315 °,8
IDE10924-MAS05286-Initial calibration: result-Roll angle,0.269 °,8
IDE10924-MAS05287-Initial calibration: result-Pitch angle,-0.113 °,8
IDE10924-MAS10678-Initial calibration: result-Camera height,1476 mm,8
ENG130776-ENG130840-Adaptation_tsr-Par_country_code_RSR,0 ,3
ENG130776-ENG130841-Adaptation_tsr-Par_country_code_VZF,0 ,3
ENG130776-ENG130838-Adaptation_tsr-Par_country_mode,automatic ,3
ENG130776-ENG130839-Adaptation_tsr-Par_relevance_mode,Enabled ,3
ENG120319-Mask_error_reactions_for_development,not activated ,1
ENG107577-Masked_fault_classes-,255 ,4
ENG107577-Masked_fault_classes-,255 ,4
ENG107577-Masked_fault_classes-,255 ,4
ENG107577-Masked_fault_classes-,255 ,4
ENG130777-standstill_mode,not activated ,1
ENG130781-ENG130836-WLA_adjustment-BrightnessThreshold_active,1 ,5
ENG130781-ENG130837-WLA_adjustment-BrightnessThreshold_passive,20 ,5
ENG130779-Xcp_interface,not activated ,1


Elapsed Time: 00:07
 
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   #156  

sam1754

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Thanks for this excellent document. After reading it, I say you're 100% right!
In Luxembourg, I often see Audi's and Touareg's bi-LRR radars. So, all standard VW cars come with MRR radars and ACC up to 160km/h... My Passat never went over 145km/h:D, so it's not a problem for me:thumbs:
I also read that despite many comment, the camera is really a grayscale one so that's limiting the lane assist. Touareg and Audi A6 A8 have color camera with great definition!!!
I go to the dealer shop right now and I'll change my Passat for an Audi! desillusion:cry:
No, I like my Passat, even in Charlie Chaplin's movies mode:popcorn:
 
   #157  

symb

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I don't think that's correct information.

I propose to read this one, this explains very well the whole driver assist scheme : https://vwts.ru/pps/pps_890253_vw_driver_assistance_systems_eng.pdf

Only thing the front camera adds is an advance warning up to 210km/h with MRR radars but it does not extend the radar range itself. The limitation of the radar is still 160km/h.

Quote :
Multifunctional Front Camera
This camera detects vehicles that may be invisible to the
front radar system by using an actual camera to monitor the
area in front of the vehicle.
The camera monitors the area in front of the vehicle when
stationary, preparing for a restart of the ACC system. It can
also detect lane markings for lane departure warning (Lane
Assist)


I really don't see how it could detect object farther away reliably if it's designed to monitor the front of the vehicle?
Interesting that there is no mention about the dynamic light assist function and the part that camera plays in it. Of course it is different kind of image processing, but very very precisely working one. In dark, clear straight road it detects oncoming lights from around max 1000+ meters.

And oddly in some parts like the camera hardware presentation, the document seems somehow outdated? At least in the 3Q0 980 654 all the image processing is done in the same package.

Here is the second gen bosch camera brochure (3Q0 980 654).
It has color and 1280x960 imager size. Correct me if I'm wrong.

http://auto2015.bosch.com.cn/ebrochures2015/automated/cc/da/mpc2/datenblatt_mpc2_en.pdf
 
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   #158  

downtime

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Measuring light intensity vs measuring object movement are two completely different things. The latter one will need stereo camera to reliably measure the movement. Single view camera is not very accurate as the view is monotonic.

Bosch’s brochure also only mentions forward collision warning. Sensor fusion is well explained in the document by the way.
 
   #159  

golfman

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I have added the extra wires from the A5 Camera to the 13 Front Radar and coded them in but not really sure what difference there is.
Done these codings...

Coding related to the ACC/front assist and A5 front camera:

Module 13 byte 3 bit 6 enable (front camera installed)
Module A5 byte 11 bit 2 enable (acc coded)
Module A5 byte 14 bit 0 enable (radar interface coded)

My 2018 polo only has front assist But yet before I added the 2 canbus wires and coded these in it made the Lane Assist Deactivate.

Scott
 
   #160  

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Did you change to ACC type to stop&go 8T8 in engine control module as well after adding lane assist camera? Also ABS coding will be different.
 
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