2013 Audi Allroad B8 - intermittent hard start

   #1  

4lane

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The past two days I've had three intermittent occurrences of a hard start while all other starts were normal, on a B8 2013 Audi Allroad.

1) Press Ignition Button : car fires and immediately stalls
2) Press Ignition Button Second Time: car continually cranks for ~5s before starting, after which it seems to run normally

I ran a scan and received the following. I'm looking at fault 4106 - Bank 1; System too Rich at Idle, since it gives a date when it occurred, although this wasn't the date of the most recent occurrence for some reason. I was thinking the N80 valve might be faulty but wasn't sure if that could lead to an intermittent hard start I'm experiencing. Any help is appreciated.

Code:
Sunday,31,March,2019,16:07:42:02305
VCDS -- Windows Based VAG/VAS Emulator Running on Windows 10 x64
VCDS Version: 18.9.1.0 (x64)  HEX-V2 CB: 0.4437.4
Data version: 20190114 DS296.0
www.Ross-Tech.com


VIN: WA1UFAFL0DA069272   License Plate: 
Mileage: 83230km-51716mi   Repair Order: 



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Chassis Type: FL-AU48 (8R0)
Scan: 01 02 03 05 08 09 15 16 17 19 36 42 44 46 47 52 53 56 5F 62
          6C 6D 72

VIN: WA1UFAFL0DA069272   Mileage: 83230km-51716miles

01-Engine -- Status: Malfunction 0010
02-Auto Trans -- Status: OK 0000
03-ABS Brakes -- Status: OK 0000
04-Steering Angle -- Status: OK 0000
05-Acc/Start Auth. -- Status: OK 0000
08-Auto HVAC -- Status: OK 0000
09-Cent. Elect. -- Status: OK 0000
15-Airbags -- Status: OK 0000
16-Steering wheel -- Status: OK 0000
17-Instruments -- Status: OK 0000
19-CAN Gateway -- Status: Malfunction 0010
36-Seat Mem. Drvr -- Status: OK 0000
42-Door Elect, Driver -- Status: OK 0000
44-Steering Assist -- Status: OK 0000
46-Central Conv. -- Status: OK 0000
47-Sound System -- Status: OK 0000
52-Door Elect, Pass. -- Status: OK 0000
53-Parking Brake -- Status: OK 0000
56-Radio -- Status: OK 0000
5F-Information Electr. -- Status: Malfunction 0010
62-Door, Rear Left -- Status: OK 0000
6C-Back-up Cam. -- Status: OK 0000
6D-Trunk Elect. -- Status: OK 0000
72-Door, Rear Right -- Status: OK 0000
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 01: Engine (DET-CPMA)       Labels:. 06H-907-115-CDN.clb
   Part No SW: 8K5 907 115 F    HW: 8K2 907 115 L
   Component: 2.0l R4/4V TF H09 0008  
   Revision: ECH09---    
   Coding: 722A0013242600062000
   Shop #: WSC 54964 001 1048576
   ASAM Dataset: EV_ECM20TFS0118K5907115F 001009
   ROD: EV_ECM20TFS0118K5907115F.rod
   VCID: 3537DC2F05C1E6BF7DB-8060

2 Faults Found:
 
          P0456 00 [096] - Very Small Leak Detected
          Intermittent - Not Confirmed - Tested Since Memory Clear

4106 - Bank 1; System too Rich at Idle 
          P2188 00 [096] - -
          Intermittent - Not Confirmed - Tested Since Memory Clear
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 00000001
                    Fault Priority: 2
                    Fault Frequency: 1
                    Mileage: 83212 km
                    Date: 2019.03.29
                    Time: 10:48:43

                    Engine speed: 794.00 /min
                    Normed load value: 20.4 %
                    Vehicle speed: 0 km/h
                    Coolant temperature: 85 °C
                    Intake air temperature: 54 °C
                    Ambient air pressure: 1010 mbar
                    Voltage terminal 30: 14.182 V
                    Unlearning counter according OBD: 35
                    Median injection timing: 0.990 ms
                    Engine operating condition: Idling
                    Engine operating condition-Test_Program_Channel 87: 5

Readiness: 0000 0000

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 02: Auto Trans (J217)       Labels:| 0BK-927-156.clb
   Part No SW: 8K1 927 158     HW: 0BK 927 156 AL
   Component: 0BK 20TFSIUSA H16 1006  
   Revision: --H16---    
   Coding: 000002
   Shop #: WSC 00000 000 00000
   ASAM Dataset: EV_TCMAL551211 002022
   ROD: EV_TCMAL551211_002_AU48.rod
   VCID: 74B1212B4E3BBFB78A5-8020

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 03: ABS Brakes (J104)       Labels:. 8K0-907-379-V1.clb
   Part No SW: 8K9 907 379 M    HW: 8K9 907 379 M
   Component: ESP8 quattro  H09 0100  
   Revision: --------    Serial number: --------------
   Coding: 0E1D18
   Shop #: WSC 06334 000 00000
   VCID: 4CC199CB76CB8777325-8018

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 05: Acc/Start Auth. (J393)       Labels:. 8K0-907-064-05.clb
   Part No SW: 8K0 907 064 FP    HW: 8K0 907 064 FP
   Component: BCM2 2.0      H10 0602  
   Revision: 00002001    
   Coding: 0D820000000000000000
   Shop #: WSC 06335 000 00000
   VCID: 035372F71B15880F83F-8056

   Subsystem 1 - Part No SW: 8K0 905 852 E    HW: 8K0 905 852 E
   Component: J764 ELV MLB  H40 0046 
   Serial number: 2312000100185014    

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 08: Auto HVAC (J255)       Labels: Redir Fail!
   Part No SW: 8K1 820 043 N    HW: 8K1 820 043 N
   Component: KLIMA 3 ZONEN H04 0123  
   Revision: C1000000    Serial number: 01110520121266
   Coding: 6480208000
   Shop #: WSC 06335 000 00000
   VCID: 3333E2370B35F88F53F-8066

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 09: Cent. Elect. (J519)       Labels:. 8K0-907-063.clb
   Part No SW: 8K0 907 063 DH    HW: 8K0 907 063 AH
   Component: BCM1 1.0      H14 0103  
   Revision: 08014001    Serial number: 00000030437701
   Coding: 26000091863CAFC00000480300003D0D0F1C4708A2090221000008000000030100000030000000
   Shop #: WSC 08185 444 103375
   VCID: 78A9151B52D3DBD7A6D-802C

   Subsystem 1 - Part No SW: 8K1 955 119 A    HW: 8T1 955 119   Labels: 1KX-955-119.CLB
   Component: WWS 110512  H07 0070 
   Serial number: SWF12050115803      
   Coding: 00FD11

   Subsystem 2 - Part No SW: 8U0 955 559 B    HW: 8U0 955 559 B  Labels: 8U0-955-559.CLB
   Component: G397_RLFS  H06 0002 
   Serial number: 20271225            
   Coding: 02005D

   Subsystem 3 - Part No SW: 8K0 941 531 AS    HW: 8K0 941 531 AS
   Component: E1 - LDS  H03 0031 
   Serial number: 00000000000305120151

   Subsystem 4 - Part No SW: 4G0 907 410 A    HW: 4H0 907 410 A
   Component: USHL4.2  H30 0030 
   Serial number: 0000002274555R1NZ702

   Subsystem 5 - Part No SW: 4H0 907 658     HW: 4H0 907 658 
   Component: AQ_Hum_Sensor  H02 0002 
   Serial number: 2908C126000000000001

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 15: Airbags (J234)       Labels:* 8K0-959-655.clb
   Part No SW: 8K0 959 655 M    HW: 8K0 959 655 M
   Component: AirbagVW-AU10 H46 0610  
   Serial number: 003KEDA014G   
   Coding: 303844354A32303030304A55304C384B3053
   Shop #: WSC 00040 002 1048576
   ASAM Dataset: EV_AirbaECUVWAUDI010 003010
   ROD: EV_AirbaECUVWAUDI010_003_AU48.rod
   VCID: 47CBA6E76F2D642F1F7-8012

   Seat occupied recognition: 
   Subsystem 1 - Part No SW: 8K0 959 339 C    HW: 8K0 959 339 C
   Component: BF-Gewichtss.  H02 0040 
   Serial number: 5810000R1200008MMA

   Crash sensor for side airbag: driver side: 
   Serial number: 6334MSME6E514072C

   Crash sensor for side airbag: front passenger side: 
   Serial number: 6344MSME6F222D3BS

   Crash sensor for side airbag: rear: driver side: 
   Serial number: 6352QSME441653628

   Crash sensor for side airbag: rear: passenger side: 
   Serial number: 6362QSME4F15014CK

   Crash sensor for front airbag: driver side: 
   Serial number: 63732SME6D14325A0

   Crash sensor for front airbag: front passenger side: 
   Serial number: 63832SME4C145162Z

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 16: Steering wheel (J527)       Labels:. 8K0-953-568.clb
   Part No SW: 8R0 953 568 Q    HW: 8R0 953 568 Q
   Component: Lenks.Modul   H02 0171  
   Revision: 00000000    Serial number: 20120514001084
   Coding: 000017
   Shop #: WSC 06335 000 00000
   VCID: 4FFB8EC787DDBC6F577-801A

   Component: E221 - MFL  H03 0003 

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 17: Instruments (J285)       Labels:. 8T0-920-xxx-17.clb
   Part No SW: 8K0 920 982 A    HW: 8K0 920 982 A
   Component: KOMBIINSTR.   H35 0540  
   Revision: 00000000    Serial number: NTC23475D     
   Coding: 8B3629020301D705020000
   Shop #: WSC 06335 000 00000
   VCID: 323DE733F42FF187589-8066

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 19: CAN Gateway (J533)       Labels:. 8T0-907-468.clb
   Part No SW: 8R0 907 468 C    HW: 8R0 907 468 C
   Component: GW-BEM 4CAN-M H10 0025  
   Revision: 1Y030014    Serial number: 1441Y125030368
   Coding: 00C303FF00
   Shop #: WSC 06335 000 00000
   VCID: 3FDBBE07377D2CEFA77-806A

   Subsystem 1 - Part No SW: 8T0 915 181     HW: 8T0 915 181 
   Component: J367-BDMHella  H03 8041 
   Serial number: 8175957401          

2 Faults Found:
00384 - Optical Databus 
            011 - Open Circuit - Intermittent
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 00101011
                    Fault Priority: 5
                    Fault Frequency: 1
                    Reset counter: 173
                    Mileage: 82983 km
                    Time Indication: 0
                    Date: 2019.03.24
                    Time: 11:57:15

             Freeze Frame:
                    Bin. Bits:    10000
                    Voltage: 11.90 V
                    Count: 11
                    Bin. Bits:    00000

03041 - Energy Management Active 
            000 -  -  - Intermittent
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 00100000
                    Fault Priority: 7
                    Fault Frequency: 1
                    Reset counter: 174
                    Mileage: 83002 km
                    Time Indication: 0
                    Date: 2019.03.24
                    Time: 15:14:24

             Freeze Frame:
                    Bin. Bits:    10000
                    Voltage: 11.60 V
                    Count: 10


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 36: Seat Mem. Drvr (J136)       Labels:. 8T0-959-760.clb
   Part No SW: 8K0 959 760 D    HW: 8K0 959 760 D
   Component: MEM-FS        H06 0076  
   Revision: AA000000    Serial number: 00000029145580
   Coding: 00581B00000000000000
   Shop #: WSC 06335 000 00000
   VCID: 3B23CA17236530CF8BF-806E

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 42: Door Elect, Driver (J386)       Labels:. 8K0-959-793.clb
   Part No SW: 8K0 959 793 P    HW: 8K0 959 793 P
   Component: TSG FA        H02 0506  
   Revision:             Serial number: 0000029908343 
   Coding: 011C13205E00410001
   Shop #: WSC 06335 000 00000
   VCID: 4DC794CF8DD18E7F25B-8018

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 44: Steering Assist (J500)       Labels:| 8K0-909-144.clb
   Part No SW: 8K0 909 144 F    HW: 8K0 909 144 B
   Component: RCEPS         H36 0507  
   Revision: 00001000    Serial number: 0020526803
   Coding: 100000000001
   Shop #: WSC 08185 444 122181
   ASAM Dataset: EV_RCEPSAU48X 008014
   ROD: EV_RCEPSAU48X_008.rod
   VCID: 3431E12B0EBBFFB74A5-8060

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 46: Central Conv. (J393)       Labels:. 8K0-907-064-46.clb
   Part No SW: 8K0 907 064 FP    HW: 8K0 907 064 FP
   Component: BCM2 2.0      H10 0602  
   Revision: 00002001    Serial number: 0176517259    
   Coding: 0126023A20BA709580B0023200000000
   Shop #: WSC 06334 000 00000
   VCID: 035372F71B15880F83F-8056

   Subsystem 1 - Part No SW: 8K0 959 719 B    HW: 8K0 959 719 
   Component: GTO BF  H01 0080 
   Serial number: 00000000000000519778

   Subsystem 2 - Part No: 1K0 951 605 C
   Component: LIN BACKUP HO  H05 1501 

   Subsystem 3 - Part No SW: 8K0 959 591 B    HW: 8K0 959 591 
   Component: J245 PS150  H08 0043 

   Subsystem 4 - Part No SW: 8K0 959 591 B    HW: 8K0 959 591 
   Component: J394 PS240  H08 0043 

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 47: Sound System (J525)       Labels:. 8T0-035-223-BOM.clb
   Part No SW: 8T1 035 223 A    HW: 8T1 035 223 A
   Component: DSP Prem      H04 0030  
   Revision: 00004001    Serial number: 94814003201301
   VCID: 2D07F44FED11AE7F05B-8078

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 52: Door Elect, Pass. (J387)       Labels:. 8K0-959-792.clb
   Part No SW: 8K0 959 792 P    HW: 8K0 959 792 P
   Component: TSG BF        H02 0506  
   Revision:             Serial number: 0000029772602 
   Coding: 011C13205E00410001
   Shop #: WSC 06335 000 00000
   VCID: 4CC199CB76CB8777325-8018

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 53: Parking Brake (----)       Labels: 8K0-907-801-V2.clb
   Part No SW: 8K0 907 801 L    HW: 8K0 907 801 J
   Component: EPB-4         H01 0003  
   Revision: --------    Serial number: 00000000048809
   ASAM Dataset: EV_ParkiBrake 001027
   ROD: EV_ParkiBrake_AU48.rod
   VCID: 3829D51B12D31BD766D-806C

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 56: Radio (R)       Labels: Redir Fail!
   Part No SW: 4G0 035 080 G    HW: 4G0 035 080 
   Component: Radio U SIRIU H60 0133  
   Revision: AB001007    Serial number: 158H10E7505942
   Coding: 020007010000000001
   Shop #: WSC 01238 002 1048576
   VCID: 221D1773A4CF6107A89-8076

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 5F: Information Electr. (J794)       Labels:. 4E0-035-6xx-5F.clb
   Part No SW: 8R1 035 746 G    HW: 8R1 035 746 A
   Component: H-BNT-NA      H42 0901  
   Revision: --------    Serial number: 096E 0C7510836
   Coding: 010200050006A1EF41028B4E00000403140000000000000000
   Shop #: WSC 06335 000 00000
   VCID: 3B23CA17236530CF8BF-806E

   Subsystem 1 - Part No: 8R0 060 884 AD
   Component: NAR 2011  0505 

   Subsystem 2 - Part No SW: 8R0 919 604     HW: 8R0 919 604 
   Component: DU7 High  H41 0104 
   Serial number: A130EG0CS169387     

   Subsystem 3 - Part No SW: 8T0 919 611 L    HW: 8T0 919 611 C
   Component: E0380 Bedient  H02 0030 
   Serial number: 00000001153298      

   Subsystem 4 - Part No: 8R0 060 961 B
   Component: CD-Database  3371 

2 Faults Found:
02067 - Optical Databus; Unpermitted Wake-Up Request 
            000 -  -  - Intermittent
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 00100000
                    Fault Priority: 6
                    Fault Frequency: 1
                    Reset counter: 173
                    Mileage: 82983 km
                    Time Indication: 0
                    Date: 2019.03.24
                    Time: 11:47:26

             Freeze Frame:
                    Voltage: 11.90 V

01043 - Control Module; Incorrect Software Version 
            000 -  - 
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 01100000
                    Fault Priority: 5
                    Fault Frequency: 1
                    Reset counter: 152
                    Mileage: 83234 km
                    Time Indication: 0
                    Date: 2019.03.30
                    Time: 15:42:55

             Freeze Frame:
                    Bin. Bits: 00000000 00000000
                    Bin. Bits: 00000000 00000000
                    Bin. Bits: 00000000 00000000
                    Bin. Bits: 00000000 00000000
                    Bin. Bits: 00000000 00000000
                    Bin. Bits: 00000000 00000001


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 62: Door, Rear Left (J388)       Labels:. 8K0-959-795.clb
   Part No SW: 8K0 959 795 D    HW: 8K0 959 795 D
   Component: TSG HL        H01 0506  
   Revision:             Serial number: 0000030049731 
   Coding: 010C13204000210001
   Shop #: WSC 06335 000 00000
   VCID: 43D3B2F75B95480FC3F-8016

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 6C: Back-up Cam.        Labels: 8T0-907-441.clb
   Part No SW: 8T0 907 441 D    HW: 8T0 907 441 D
   Component: J772__Rearview      0140  
   Revision: --H06---    Serial number: 525PA8-J229325
   Coding: 1000007
   Shop #: WSC 06335 000 00000
   VCID: 392FD01F255902DF993-806C

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 6D: Trunk Elect. (J605)       Labels: Redir Fail!
   Part No SW: 8K9 827 851 A    HW: 8K9 827 851 A
   Component: J605  Master  H52 0330  
   Revision: --------    Serial number: 8K9827851A    
   VCID: 3C21C90B266B37F7825-8068

   Subsystem 1 - Part No SW: 8K9 827 852 A    HW: 8K9 827 852 A
   Component: J756  Slave  H52 0330 
   Serial number: 8K9827852A          

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 72: Door, Rear Right (J389)       Labels:. 8K0-959-795.clb
   Part No SW: 8K0 959 795 D    HW: 8K0 959 795 D
   Component: TSG HR        H01 0506  
   Revision:             Serial number: 0000030050712 
   Coding: 010C13204000210001
   Shop #: WSC 06335 000 00000
   VCID: 43D3B2F75B95480FC3F-8016

No fault code found.

End----(Elapsed Time: 02:08, VBatt start/end: 12.0V/11.9V. VIgn 11.9V)-----
 
   #2  

Jack@European_Parts

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2013 Audi Allroad B8 - intermittent hard start

The past two days I've had three intermittent occurrences of a hard start while all other starts were normal, on a B8 2013 Audi Allroad.

1) Press Ignition Button : car fires and immediately stalls
2) Press Ignition Button Second Time: car continually cranks for ~5s before starting, after which it seems to run normally

I ran a scan and received the following. I'm looking at fault 4106 - Bank 1; System too Rich at Idle, since it gives a date when it occurred, although this wasn't the date of the most recent occurrence for some reason. I was thinking the N80 valve might be faulty but wasn't sure if that could lead to an intermittent hard start I'm experiencing. Any help is appreciated.​
Car is under warranty still?

Mileage: 83230km-51716mi
Vehicle Identification No.WA1UFAFL0DA069272
ModelAudi A4 Av. Allroad
quattro 2.0
A4AR
Date of production23.05.2012
Year2013
Sales type8KH52A
Engine CodeCPMA
Transmission CodeNGR

Emission standard7GBEmission standard ULEV 2

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 01: Engine (DET-CPMA) Labels:. 06H-907-115-CDN.clb
Part No SW: 8K5 907 115 F HW: 8K2 907 115 L<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< Firmware appears to be up to date!
:rolleyes:
Component: 2.0l R4/4V TF H09 0008
Revision: ECH09---
Coding: 722A0013242600062000
Shop #: WSC 54964 001 1048576
ASAM Dataset: EV_ECM20TFS0118K5907115F 001009
ROD: EV_ECM20TFS0118K5907115F.rod
VCID: 3537DC2F05C1E6BF7DB-8060


2 Faults Found:

P0456 00 [096] - Very Small Leak Detected
Intermittent - Not Confirmed - Tested Since Memory Clear

4106 - Bank 1; System too Rich at Idle
P2188 00 [096] - -
Intermittent - Not Confirmed - Tested Since Memory Clear
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 00000001
Fault Priority: 2
Fault Frequency: 1
Mileage: 83212 km
Date: 2019.03.29
Time: 10:48:43

Engine speed: 794.00 /min
Normed load value: 20.4 %
Vehicle speed: 0 km/h
Coolant temperature: 85 °C
Intake air temperature: 54 °C
Ambient air pressure: 1010 mbar
Voltage terminal 30: 14.182 V
Unlearning counter according OBD: 35
Median injection timing: 0.990 ms
Engine operating condition: Idling
Engine operating condition-Test_Program_Channel 87: 5

Readiness: 0000 0000





OP:

Can you please post the following MODE's of the OBD2?
In VCDS MODE's : 1, 3, 7 & 9.
Absolutely check N80 & sump for gasoline contamination from injector leak down or HPP failure too!

Is car modified in anyway?

Did you JPPSG?
https://forums.ross-tech.com/showth...uot-JPPSG-quot&p=156577&viewfull=1#post156577

You may find this thread link helpful......
https://forums.ross-tech.com/showth...ases-and-vacuum-amp-so-should-you!-Air-leaks!

Thank you
 
Last edited:
   #3  

4lane

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Hi! Car is not under warranty. It is stock w/ no mods. Here are the ODBII modes:

Code:
Tuesday,02,April,2019,21:31:08:02305
VCDS Release 18.9.1 (x64):  Generic OBD2
Mode 01 - PID 01 : Readiness  --  Address 7E8

Number of DTCs stored: 0  --  MIL Status: MIL OFF
Misfire monitoring:  Passed
Fuel System:  Passed
Comprehensive Components:  Passed
Catalyst monitoring:  Failed or Incomplete
Heated catalyst monitoring: Not installed.
Evaporative system monitoring:  Failed or Incomplete
Secondary air system monitoring: Not installed.
A/C system refrigerant monitoring: Not installed.
Oxygen sensor monitoring:  Failed or Incomplete
Oxygen sensor heater monitoring:  Failed or Incomplete
Exhaust Gas Recirculation:  Failed or Incomplete


Tuesday,02,April,2019,21:31:23:02305
VCDS Release 18.9.1 (x64):  Generic OBD2
Mode 03: Emission related fault codes

Address 7E8: No fault code found.

Address 7E9: No fault code found.


Tuesday,02,April,2019,21:31:36:02305
VCDS Release 18.9.1 (x64):  Generic OBD2
Mode 07: Pending emission related fault codes

Address 7E8: No fault code found.

Address 7E9: No fault code found.


Tuesday,02,April,2019,21:31:54:02305
VCDS Release 18.9.1 (x64):  Generic OBD2
Mode 9 : Calibration Identification

Type 02 - VIN : WA1UFAFL0DA069272 (Address E8)
Type 04 - Calibration ID : 8K5115F 0008AVBB (Address E8)
Type 04 - Calibration ID : 8K1158  100622   (Address E9)
Type 06 - Calibration Verification Number : 511D777D (Address E8)
Type 06 - Calibration Verification Number : 59BB2F44 (Address E9)
Type 08 - In-use performance tracking :
    OBD Monitoring Conditions Encountered count : 359
    Ignition cycle count : 1964
    Conditions completion count / Specified conditions encountered count
         Catalyst monitor bank 1 : 684 / 353
         Catalyst monitor bank 2 : 0 / 0
         O2 Sensor monitor bank 1 : 588 / 359
         O2 Sensor monitor bank 2 : 0 / 0
         EGR-VVT monitor : 1524 / 359
         AIR monitor : 0 / 0
         EVAP monitor : 55 / 53
         Secondary O2 Sensor monitor bank 1 : 531 / 353
         Secondary O2 Sensor monitor bank 2 : 0 / 0
Type 0A - Controller Name : ECM-EngineControl (Address E8)
Type 0A - Controller Name : TCM-TransmisCtrl (Address E9)

Tuesday,02,April,2019,21:33:41:02305
VCDS Release 18.9.1 (x64):  Generic OBD2
Mode 1:Read Data

06:Short Term Trim - Bank 1     0.0 %
07:Long Term Trim - Bank 1     4.7 %
15:Bank 1 Sensor 2 Status     0.455 V
34:Bank 1 Sensor 1 Status     1.013 Lambda  0.016 mA
 
   #6  

Jack@European_Parts

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Yeah maybe a siphon effect gong on with N80 so observe if this happens at all during fill ups with fuel.

Verify sump for fuel from HPP or fuel injector leak by or down to oil.
 
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   #7  

4lane

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VCDS Serial number
C?ID=8554
This issue disappeared for a while but has recently resurfaced. On a recent day, after driving to a store, came back out and car would not fire. Put gas pedal to floor and cranked and it immediately fired. Check engine light came on and the following DTCs were pulled. Of other note: fuel mileage was noticed to have dropped 3 mpg/hwy recently as well. There has never been a siphon effect at refueling, nor does the engine ever misfire, stall, or stutter. It is only a rare issue at initial start. I sense a hint of gas smell in oil but I'm unsure if it is excessive or not. Engine oil has always stayed at full level, but has dropped a quart (@8k miles) which was unusual.

Any opinion whether these issues point more toward N80, or PCV, or HPFP as the culprit?


Code:
Sunday,07,June,2020,08:39:18:02305
VCDS -- Windows Based VAG/VAS Emulator Running on Windows 10 x64
VCDS Version: 20.4.1.0 (x64)  HEX-V2 CB: 0.4508.4
Data version: 20200331 DS317.0
www.Ross-Tech.com


VIN: WA1UFAFL0DA069272   License Plate: 
Mileage: 98110km-60962mi   Repair Order: 



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Chassis Type: FL-AU48 (8R0)
Scan: 01 02 03 05 08 09 15 16 17 19 36 42 44 46 47 52 53 56 5F 62
          6C 6D 72

VIN: WA1UFAFL0DA069272   Mileage: 98110km-60962miles

01-Engine -- Status: Malfunction 0010
02-Auto Trans -- Status: OK 0000
03-ABS Brakes -- Status: OK 0000
04-Steering Angle -- Status: OK 0000
05-Acc/Start Auth. -- Status: Malfunction 0010
08-Auto HVAC -- Status: OK 0000
09-Cent. Elect. -- Status: OK 0000
15-Airbags -- Status: OK 0000
16-Steering wheel -- Status: OK 0000
17-Instruments -- Status: OK 0000
19-CAN Gateway -- Status: OK 0000
36-Seat Mem. Drvr -- Status: OK 0000
42-Door Elect, Driver -- Status: OK 0000
44-Steering Assist -- Status: OK 0000
46-Central Conv. -- Status: OK 0000
47-Sound System -- Status: OK 0000
52-Door Elect, Pass. -- Status: OK 0000
53-Parking Brake -- Status: OK 0000
56-Radio -- Status: OK 0000
5F-Information Electr. -- Status: OK 0000
62-Door, Rear Left -- Status: OK 0000
6C-Back-up Cam. -- Status: OK 0000
6D-Trunk Elect. -- Status: OK 0000
72-Door, Rear Right -- Status: Malfunction 0010
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 01: Engine (DET-CPMA)       Labels:. 06H-907-115-CDN.clb
   Part No SW: 8K5 907 115 F    HW: 8K2 907 115 L
   Component: 2.0l R4/4V TF H09 0008  
   Revision: ECH09---    
   Coding: 722A0013242600062000
   Shop #: WSC 54964 001 1048576
   ASAM Dataset: EV_ECM20TFS0118K5907115F 001009
   ROD: EV_ECM20TFS0118K5907115F.rod
   VCID: 3537DC2F05C1E6B3B0D-8060

1 Fault Found:
4106 - Bank 1; System too Rich at Idle 
          P2188 00 [232] - -
          MIL ON - Intermittent - Confirmed - Tested Since Memory Clear
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 00000001
                    Fault Priority: 2
                    Fault Frequency: 3
                    Mileage: 97906 km
                    Date: 2020.05.28
                    Time: 16:34:15

                    Engine speed: 827.00 /min
                    Normed load value: 23.5 %
                    Vehicle speed: 0 km/h
                    Coolant temperature: 96 °C
                    Intake air temperature: 21 °C
                    Ambient air pressure: 970 mbar
                    Voltage terminal 30: 14.442 V
                    Unlearning counter according OBD: 40
                    Median injection timing: 1.585 ms
                    Engine operating condition: Idling
                    Engine operating condition-Test_Program_Channel 87: 5
                    Brake actuated status-Bits 0-7: 59
                    Engine torque: 60.3 Nm

Readiness: 0000 0100

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 02: Auto Trans (J217)       Labels:| 0BK-927-156.clb
   Part No SW: 8K1 927 158     HW: 0BK 927 156 AL
   Component: 0BK 20TFSIUSA H16 1006  
   Revision: --H16---    
   Coding: 000002
   Shop #: WSC 00000 000 00000
   ASAM Dataset: EV_TCMAL551211 002022
   ROD: EV_TCMAL551211_002_AU48.rod
   VCID: 74B1212B4E3BBFBB473-8020

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 03: ABS Brakes (J104)       Labels:. 8K0-907-379-V1.clb
   Part No SW: 8K9 907 379 M    HW: 8K9 907 379 M
   Component: ESP8 quattro  H09 0100  
   Revision: --------    Serial number: --------------
   Coding: 0E1D18
   Shop #: WSC 06334 000 00000
   VCID: 4CC199CB76CB877BFF3-8018

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 05: Acc/Start Auth. (J393)       Labels:. 8K0-907-064-05.clb
   Part No SW: 8K0 907 064 FP    HW: 8K0 907 064 FP
   Component: BCM2 2.0      H10 0602  
   Revision: 00002001    
   Coding: 0D820000000000000000
   Shop #: WSC 06335 000 00000
   VCID: 035372F71B1588034E9-8056

   Subsystem 1 - Part No SW: 8K0 905 852 E    HW: 8K0 905 852 E
   Component: J764 ELV MLB  H40 0046 
   Serial number: 2312000100185014    

1 Fault Found:
00955 - Key 1 
            002 - Lower Limit Exceeded
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 01100010
                    Fault Priority: 3
                    Fault Frequency: 1
                    Reset counter: 78
                    Mileage: 97895 km
                    Time Indication: 0
                    Date: 2020.05.28
                    Time: 16:04:28


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 08: Auto HVAC (J255)       Labels: Redir Fail!
   Part No SW: 8K1 820 043 N    HW: 8K1 820 043 N
   Component: KLIMA 3 ZONEN H04 0123  
   Revision: C1000000    Serial number: 01110520121266
   Coding: 6480208000
   Shop #: WSC 06335 000 00000
   VCID: 3333E2370B35F8839E9-8066

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 09: Cent. Elect. (J519)       Labels:. 8K0-907-063.clb
   Part No SW: 8K0 907 063 DH    HW: 8K0 907 063 AH
   Component: BCM1 1.0      H14 0103  
   Revision: 08014001    Serial number: 00000030437701
   Coding: 26000091803CAFC00000480300003D0D0F1C4708A2090221000008000000030100000030000000
   Shop #: WSC 08185 444 103375
   VCID: 78A9151B52D3DBDB6BB-802C

   Subsystem 1 - Part No SW: 8K1 955 119 A    HW: 8T1 955 119   Labels: 1KX-955-119.CLB
   Component: WWS 110512  H07 0070 
   Serial number: SWF12050115803      
   Coding: 00FD11

   Subsystem 2 - Part No SW: 8U0 955 559 B    HW: 8U0 955 559 B  Labels: 8U0-955-559.CLB
   Component: G397_RLFS  H06 0002 
   Serial number: 20271225            
   Coding: 02005D

   Subsystem 3 - Part No SW: 8K0 941 531 AS    HW: 8K0 941 531 AS
   Component: E1 - LDS  H03 0031 
   Serial number: 00000000000305120151

   Subsystem 4 - Part No SW: 4G0 907 410 A    HW: 4H0 907 410 A
   Component: USHL4.2  H30 0030 
   Serial number: 0000002274555R1NZ702

   Subsystem 5 - Part No SW: 4H0 907 658     HW: 4H0 907 658 
   Component: AQ_Hum_Sensor  H02 0002 
   Serial number: 2908C126000000000001

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 15: Airbags (J234)       Labels:| 8K0-959-655.clb
   Part No SW: 8K0 959 655 M    HW: 8K0 959 655 M
   Component: AirbagVW-AU10 H46 0610  
   Serial number: 003KEDA014G   
   Coding: 303844354A32303030304A55304C384B3053
   Shop #: WSC 00040 002 1048576
   ASAM Dataset: EV_AirbaECUVWAUDI010 003010
   ROD: EV_AirbaECUVWAUDI010_003_AU48.rod
   VCID: 47CBA6E76F2D6423D21-8012

   Seat occupied recognition: 
   Subsystem 1 - Part No SW: 8K0 959 339 C    HW: 8K0 959 339 C
   Component: BF-Gewichtss.  H02 0040 
   Serial number: 5810000R1200008MMA

   Crash sensor for side airbag: driver side: 
   Serial number: 6334MSME6E514072C

   Crash sensor for side airbag: front passenger side: 
   Serial number: 6344MSME6F222D3BS

   Crash sensor for side airbag: rear: driver side: 
   Serial number: 6352QSME441653628

   Crash sensor for side airbag: rear: passenger side: 
   Serial number: 6362QSME4F15014CK

   Crash sensor for front airbag: driver side: 
   Serial number: 63732SME6D14325A0

   Crash sensor for front airbag: front passenger side: 
   Serial number: 63832SME4C145162Z

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 16: Steering wheel (J527)       Labels:. 8K0-953-568.clb
   Part No SW: 8R0 953 568 Q    HW: 8R0 953 568 Q
   Component: Lenks.Modul   H02 0171  
   Revision: 00000000    Serial number: 20120514001084
   Coding: 000017
   Shop #: WSC 06335 000 00000
   VCID: 4FFB8EC787DDBC639A1-801A

   Component: E221 - MFL  H03 0003 

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 17: Instruments (J285)       Labels:. 8T0-920-xxx-17.clb
   Part No SW: 8K0 920 982 A    HW: 8K0 920 982 A
   Component: KOMBIINSTR.   H35 0540  
   Revision: 00000000    Serial number: NTC23475D     
   Coding: 8B3629020301D705020000
   Shop #: WSC 06335 000 00000
   VCID: 323DE733F42FF18B95F-8066

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 19: CAN Gateway (J533)       Labels:. 8T0-907-468.clb
   Part No SW: 8R0 907 468 C    HW: 8R0 907 468 C
   Component: GW-BEM 4CAN-M H10 0025  
   Revision: 1Y030014    Serial number: 1441Y125030368
   Coding: 00C303FF00
   Shop #: WSC 06335 000 00000
   VCID: 3FDBBE07377D2CE36A1-806A

   Subsystem 1 - Part No SW: 8T0 915 181     HW: 8T0 915 181 
   Component: J367-BDMHella  H03 8041 
   Serial number: 8175957401          

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 36: Seat Mem. Drvr (J136)       Labels:. 8T0-959-760.clb
   Part No SW: 8K0 959 760 D    HW: 8K0 959 760 D
   Component: MEM-FS        H06 0076  
   Revision: AA000000    Serial number: 00000029145580
   Coding: 00581B00000000000000
   Shop #: WSC 06335 000 00000
   VCID: 3B23CA17236530C3469-806E

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 42: Door Elect, Driver (J386)       Labels:. 8K0-959-793.clb
   Part No SW: 8K0 959 793 P    HW: 8K0 959 793 P
   Component: TSG FA        H02 0506  
   Revision:             Serial number: 0000029908343 
   Coding: 011C13205E00410001
   Shop #: WSC 06335 000 00000
   VCID: 4DC794CF8DD18E73E8D-8018

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 44: Steering Assist (J500)       Labels:| 8K0-909-144.clb
   Part No SW: 8K0 909 144 F    HW: 8K0 909 144 B
   Component: RCEPS         H36 0507  
   Revision: 00001000    Serial number: 0020526803
   Coding: 100000000001
   Shop #: WSC 08185 444 122181
   ASAM Dataset: EV_RCEPSAU48X 008014
   ROD: EV_RCEPSAU48X_008.rod
   VCID: 3431E12B0EBBFFBB873-8060

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 46: Central Conv. (J393)       Labels:. 8K0-907-064-46.clb
   Part No SW: 8K0 907 064 FP    HW: 8K0 907 064 FP
   Component: BCM2 2.0      H10 0602  
   Revision: 00002001    Serial number: 0176517259    
   Coding: 0126023A20BA709580B0023200000000
   Shop #: WSC 06334 000 00000
   VCID: 035372F71B1588034E9-8056

   Subsystem 1 - Part No SW: 8K0 959 719 B    HW: 8K0 959 719 
   Component: GTO BF  H01 0080 
   Serial number: 00000000000000519778

   Subsystem 2 - Part No: 1K0 951 605 C
   Component: LIN BACKUP HO  H05 1501 

   Subsystem 3 - Part No SW: 8K0 959 591 B    HW: 8K0 959 591 
   Component: J245 PS150  H08 0043 

   Subsystem 4 - Part No SW: 8K0 959 591 B    HW: 8K0 959 591 
   Component: J394 PS240  H08 0043 

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 47: Sound System (J525)       Labels:. 8T0-035-223-BOM.clb
   Part No SW: 8T1 035 223 A    HW: 8T1 035 223 A
   Component: DSP Prem      H04 0030  
   Revision: 00004001    Serial number: 94814003201301
   VCID: 2D07F44FED11AE73C8D-8078

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 52: Door Elect, Pass. (J387)       Labels:. 8K0-959-792.clb
   Part No SW: 8K0 959 792 P    HW: 8K0 959 792 P
   Component: TSG BF        H02 0506  
   Revision:             Serial number: 0000029772602 
   Coding: 011C13205E00410001
   Shop #: WSC 06335 000 00000
   VCID: 4CC199CB76CB877BFF3-8018

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 53: Parking Brake (----)       Labels: 8K0-907-801-V2.clb
   Part No SW: 8K0 907 801 L    HW: 8K0 907 801 J
   Component: EPB-4         H01 0003  
   Revision: --------    Serial number: 00000000048809
   ASAM Dataset: EV_ParkiBrake 001027
   ROD: EV_ParkiBrake_AU48.rod
   VCID: 3829D51B12D31BDBABB-806C

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 56: Radio (R)       Labels: Redir Fail!
   Part No SW: 4G0 035 080 G    HW: 4G0 035 080 
   Component: Radio U SIRIU H60 0133  
   Revision: AB001007    Serial number: 158H10E7505942
   Coding: 020007010000000001
   Shop #: WSC 01238 002 1048576
   VCID: 221D1773A4CF610B65F-8076

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 5F: Information Electr. (J794)       Labels:. 4E0-035-6xx-5F.clb
   Part No SW: 8R1 035 746 G    HW: 8R1 035 746 A
   Component: H-BNT-NA      H42 0901  
   Revision: --------    Serial number: 096E 0C7510836
   Coding: 010200050006A1EF41028F4E00000403140000000000000000
   Shop #: WSC 06335 000 00000
   VCID: 3B23CA17236530C3469-806E

   Subsystem 1 - Part No: 8R0 060 884 AD
   Component: NAR 2011  0505 

   Subsystem 2 - Part No SW: 8R0 919 604     HW: 8R0 919 604 
   Component: DU7 High  H41 0104 
   Serial number: A130EG0CS169387     

   Subsystem 3 - Part No SW: 8T0 919 611 L    HW: 8T0 919 611 C
   Component: E0380 Bedient  H02 0030 
   Serial number: 00000001153298      

   Subsystem 4 - Part No: 8R0 060 961 B
   Component: CD-Database  3371 

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 62: Door, Rear Left (J388)       Labels:. 8K0-959-795.clb
   Part No SW: 8K0 959 795 D    HW: 8K0 959 795 D
   Component: TSG HL        H01 0506  
   Revision:             Serial number: 0000030049731 
   Coding: 010C13204000210001
   Shop #: WSC 06335 000 00000
   VCID: 43D3B2F75B9548030E9-8016

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 6C: Back-up Cam.        Labels: 8T0-907-441.clb
   Part No SW: 8T0 907 441 D    HW: 8T0 907 441 D
   Component: J772__Rearview      0140  
   Revision: --H06---    Serial number: 525PA8-J229325
   Coding: 1000007
   Shop #: WSC 06335 000 00000
   VCID: 392FD01F255902D3545-806C

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 6D: Trunk Elect. (J605)       Labels: 8K9-827-851.clb
   Part No SW: 8K9 827 851 A    HW: 8K9 827 851 A
   Component: J605  Master  H52 0330  
   Revision: --------    Serial number: 8K9827851A    
   VCID: 3C21C90B266B37FB4F3-8068

   Subsystem 1 - Part No SW: 8K9 827 852 A    HW: 8K9 827 852 A
   Component: J756  Slave  H52 0330 
   Serial number: 8K9827852A          

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 72: Door, Rear Right (J389)       Labels:. 8K0-959-795.clb
   Part No SW: 8K0 959 795 D    HW: 8K0 959 795 D
   Component: TSG HR        H01 0506  
   Revision:             Serial number: 0000030050712 
   Coding: 010C13204000210001
   Shop #: WSC 06335 000 00000
   VCID: 43D3B2F75B9548030E9-8016

1 Fault Found:
02115 - Locking Unit for Central Locking 
            008 - Implausible Signal - Intermittent
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 00101000
                    Fault Priority: 3
                    Fault Frequency: 1
                    Reset counter: 132
                    Mileage: 98050 km
                    Time Indication: 0
                    Date: 2020.06.04
                    Time: 18:52:02


End----(Elapsed Time: 02:02, VBatt start/end: 11.8V/11.8V. VIgn 11.7V)-----

Code:
Sunday,07,June,2020,09:26:15:02305
VCDS Release 20.4.1 (x64):  Generic OBD2
Mode 01 - PID 01 : Readiness  --  Address 7E8

Number of DTCs stored: 0  --  MIL Status: MIL OFF
Misfire monitoring:  Passed
Fuel System:  Passed
Comprehensive Components:  Passed
Catalyst monitoring:  Failed or Incomplete
Heated catalyst monitoring: Not installed.
Evaporative system monitoring:  Failed or Incomplete
Secondary air system monitoring: Not installed.
A/C system refrigerant monitoring: Not installed.
Oxygen sensor monitoring:  Failed or Incomplete
Oxygen sensor heater monitoring:  Failed or Incomplete
Exhaust Gas Recirculation:  Failed or Incomplete



Sunday,07,June,2020,08:44:54:02305
VCDS Release 20.4.1 (x64):  Generic OBD2
Mode 03: Emission related fault codes

Address 7E8: No fault code found.

Address 7E9: No fault code found.




Sunday,07,June,2020,08:45:03:02305
VCDS Release 20.4.1 (x64):  Generic OBD2
Mode 07: Pending emission related fault codes

Address 7E8: No fault code found.

Address 7E9: No fault code found.



Sunday,07,June,2020,08:45:23:02305
VCDS Release 20.4.1 (x64):  Generic OBD2
Mode 9 : Calibration Identification

Type 02 - VIN : WA1UFAFL0DA069272 (Address E8)
Type 04 - Calibration ID : 8K5115F 0008AVBB (Address E8)
Type 04 - Calibration ID : 8K1158  100622   (Address E9)
Type 06 - Calibration Verification Number : 511D777D (Address E8)
Type 06 - Calibration Verification Number : 59BB2F44 (Address E9)
Type 08 - In-use performance tracking :
    OBD Monitoring Conditions Encountered count : 570
    Ignition cycle count : 3292
    Conditions completion count / Specified conditions encountered count
         Catalyst monitor bank 1 : 1086 / 534
         Catalyst monitor bank 2 : 0 / 0
         O2 Sensor monitor bank 1 : 969 / 570
         O2 Sensor monitor bank 2 : 0 / 0
         EGR-VVT monitor : 2584 / 570
         AIR monitor : 0 / 0
         EVAP monitor : 101 / 104
         Secondary O2 Sensor monitor bank 1 : 834 / 534
         Secondary O2 Sensor monitor bank 2 : 0 / 0
Type 0A - Controller Name : ECM-EngineControl (Address E8)
Type 0A - Controller Name : TCM-TransmisCtrl (Address E9)



Sunday,07,June,2020,09:28:05:02305
VCDS Release 20.4.1 (x64):  Generic OBD2
Mode 1:Read Data

05:Engine coolant temperature     61 °C  61 °C
10:Mass Air Flow     3.94 g/s
04:Calculated load value     18.0 %  18.4 %
06:Short Term Trim - Bank 1     -1.6 %

Code:
Sunday	7	June	2020	09:29:55:02305-VCID:3537DC2F05C1E6B3B0D-8060	VCDS Version: Release 20.4.1 (x64)	Data version: 20200331 DS317.0					
8K5 907 115 F	ADVMB	2.0l R4/4V TF H09 0008									
		G004	F0	G032	F0	G038	F0	G039	F0	G094	F0
											
Marker	TIME	Loc. IDE00025	TIME	Loc. IDE00186	TIME	Loc. IDE00201	TIME	Loc. IDE00202	TIME	Loc. IDE00589	
	STAMP	Coolant temperature	STAMP	Fuel low pressure: actual value	STAMP	High fuel pressure: specified value	STAMP	Low fuel pressure: specified value	STAMP	Fuel pressure	
		 °C		 kPa		 MPa		 kPa		 kPa rel	
	0.09	68	0.21	597.4	0.31	4	0.42	600	0.01	3870	
	0.62	68	0.73	600.6	0.84	4	0.95	600	0.53	3910	
	1.17	68	1.28	594.4	1.39	4	1.5	600	1.06	3900	
	1.71	68	1.81	596.7	1.92	4	2.03	600	1.59	3940	
	2.23	68	2.34	597.5	2.46	4	2.56	600	2.14	3870	
	2.78	68	2.89	608.1	3	4	3.09	600	2.67	3870	
	3.31	69	3.42	601.2	3.53	4	3.64	600	3.21	3950	
	3.84	69	3.95	611.1	4.06	4	4.17	600	3.75	3910	
	4.37	69	4.48	599.5	4.59	4	4.72	600	4.26	3920
 
Last edited:
   #8  

4lane

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Any thoughts on best place to start based on the fact that the issue is intermittent, it's related to starting only, and the car never stutters/hesitates otherwise? I was originally thinking HPFP or sticking injector but the fact that it happens randomly and only at start-up makes me think it's more of an occasional air leak when starting...
 
Last edited:
   #9  

4lane

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I'm not thinking the HPFP wouldn't lend itself to such an isolated behavior (only issue is at start), and that throttle to the floor during a hard start wouldn't impact a problematic HPFP.

But, my theory is, the N80 valve could be the culprit if fuel vapors collect and when starting the engine draws in fuel-rich air + more fuel from injectors would create a rich issue leading to a hard start. When this last happened and I put the throttle to the floor when cranking, it allows fresh air in the intake, leaning it back out and allowing the start. Maybe the N80 randomly goes haywire once in a while? The only problem with the theory is that I've never had an issue after refueling and it's such an infrequent occurance.

Thoughts?
 
   #11  

4lane

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He doubts me? ......:rolleyes:

Just what is a siphon anyway, do you work for VW-Audi group?
Haha, well I would never doubt you, but I don’t have any start issues after fueling so it’s a little odd in its frequency. My biggest clue was throttle to the floor gets it fired right away. That seems to lead away from HPFP. Can enough N80 leaked vapors lead to gas smell in oil?
 
   #14  

4lane

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Hi, a leaking N80 valve would most likely lead to fuel/fuel vapors migrating into the intake system - ;)

HPFPs have been known to leak fuel into the engine's crankcase.

Hope this helps,

drpeter
Very helpful thank you! Here is my current thought:

1. N80: I'm putting my chips here at this point per my explanation above. The only odd part is that it's such an intermittent issue.

2. HPFP: Possible, but when it starts by putting the throttle to the floor the HPFP wouldn't have any change, nor would successful starts when the pedal is to the floor. Plus, I never have any stalling, hesitating, etc. Also, engine oil level has not gone up meaning it's not leaking significant gas into the oil, so I'm not thinking this is the source.

3. Stuck injector: Possible, but the issue is only with starts, not with any other engine issues. Also, engine oil level has not gone up meaning an injector is leaking consistently in the oil, so I'm not thinking the source.

4. PCV: Possible, but PCV issues lead to more lean issues rather than rich issues. But I don't know much more about this.
 
   #15  

DrPeter

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Hello,

1. N80: I'm putting my chips here at this point per my explanation above. The only odd part is that it's such an intermittent issue.
I do not gamble, if I did, I would say the N80 valve is the logical choice. It is less expensive than a HPFP!!

The intermittent concern can be explained. Here is one possible reason how' this could be:
- The charcoal canister is letting small pieces of carbon to migrate up to the N80 valve.
- When the N80 valve is being commanded open by the ECM, a small piece of carbon gets stuck in the 'shutter/opening'.
- The ECM, now stops the operation of the N80, but the valve can not close 'all the way' because of the stuck carbon.
- The next time the ECM operates the N80, the carbon can move through because it was partially crushed but the 'shutter' in the valve.
- Operation f the N80 valve is back to normal, till the next time there is a bit of carbon causing an issue.

While the valve is (partially) open and the vehicle is shut down, fuel vapors are allowed to pass through and collect in the intake. Thus causing the 'rich' fuel mixture condition and the hard start, intermittently of course.

If I wanted to rule out a possibility of an issue with an N80 valve, I would consider temporarily crimping or blocking the Canister Purge Line (green) to the N80 valve, the area in red is usually a good spot. This will eliminate the possibility of fuel vapors coming into the intake.


(pic of my 2013 Allroad)


The other thing you can do, is to buy a small fuel filter for a Volkswagen Beetle, I am talking about the Air Cooled engines. These fuel filters are clear and will block any carbon particles and if present will allow you to see them inside the clear filter housing.

Bosch part number for the small filter: [0 450 904 058]

Hope this helps,

drpeter
 
   #16  

4lane

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Hello,



I do not gamble, if I did, I would say the N80 valve is the logical choice. It is less expensive than a HPFP!!

The intermittent concern can be explained. Here is one possible reason how' this could be:
- The charcoal canister is letting small pieces of carbon to migrate up to the N80 valve.
- When the N80 valve is being commanded open by the ECM, a small piece of carbon gets stuck in the 'shutter/opening'.
- The ECM, now stops the operation of the N80, but the valve can not close 'all the way' because of the stuck carbon.
- The next time the ECM operates the N80, the carbon can move through because it was partially crushed but the 'shutter' in the valve.
- Operation f the N80 valve is back to normal, till the next time there is a bit of carbon causing an issue.

While the valve is (partially) open and the vehicle is shut down, fuel vapors are allowed to pass through and collect in the intake. Thus causing the 'rich' fuel mixture condition and the hard start, intermittently of course.

If I wanted to rule out a possibility of an issue with an N80 valve, I would consider temporarily crimping or blocking the Canister Purge Line (green) to the N80 valve, the area in red is usually a good spot. This will eliminate the possibility of fuel vapors coming into the intake.


(pic of my 2013 Allroad)


The other thing you can do, is to buy a small fuel filter for a Volkswagen Beetle, I am talking about the Air Cooled engines. These fuel filters are clear and will block any carbon particles and if present will allow you to see them inside the clear filter housing.

Bosch part number for the small filter: [0 450 904 058]

Hope this helps,

drpeter
Thank you! Because it's such an intermittent issue it would be difficult to do the pinching test, but I do like the idea of the Beetle fuel filter in that line after I replace the N80 to monitor any carbon particles flowing through. Thank you again!
 
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DrPeter

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Thank you! Because it's such an intermittent issue it would be difficult to do the pinching test, but I do like the idea of the Beetle fuel filter in that line after I replace the N80 to monitor any carbon particles flowing through. Thank you again!
You are welcome, glad to help. Keep us informed and post some pics up if you find/see any carbon in there... Oh and be sure to install the filter so that the filter element end is in direction coming 'from the fuel tank', that way any carbon can be easily seen on/in the filter/chamber.

ps..... Its a good idea to blow-out/clean the line of the N80 valve!


drpeter
 
   #18  

4lane

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You are welcome, glad to help. Keep us informed and post some pics up if you find/see any carbon in there... Oh and be sure to install the filter so that the filter element end is in direction coming 'from the fuel tank', that way any carbon can be easily seen on/in the filter/chamber.

ps..... Its a good idea to blow-out/clean the line of the N80 valve!


drpeter
Will do - thank you again!
 
   #19  

Jack@European_Parts

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Thank you! Because it's such an intermittent issue it would be difficult to do the pinching test, but I do like the idea of the Beetle fuel filter in that line after I replace the N80 to monitor any carbon particles flowing through. Thank you again!
Ahhhh yup!


Like I said Under useful life warranty, isn't it?

Section 21 Pg. 2 Other Information Engine Code R.CH-No.: Revision DateTest Group DADXJ02.0FUB all
PAGE 63/64 what's it say?

https://iaspub.epa.gov/otaqpub/display_file.jsp?docid=29696&flag=1


https://forums.ross-tech.com/showth...ent-hard-start&p=160595&viewfull=1#post160595
 
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Gremling

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Hi,
I understand that the is a intermittent problem, engine can be hard to start, one fault code that was displayed was not for day of incident?

The above N80 valve has already been discussed.

Check Air mass meter, if this fails, this will have affect on ECMs mapping of fuel air mixture, causing lean/rich, is it visually contaminated, if so clean and test again. This can also be funtionally checked with vagcom or Oscilloscope.

Using Vagcom you can monitor the rail pressure, compare pressure against time taken from start of cranking to engine start. If pressure takes time to build, could be fuel pump issue or seeping injector(s), however if pressure gets up quite fast it is getting interesting.
Either with Vagcom or an oscilloscope connected to rail pressure sender might tell you better with respect to time for pressure build up, use caution and drain pressure from rail, test again. Measure time it takes from start of crank to pressure has built up in rail.



Remember also that this engine has a control valve on camshaft, item 13 in link

https://7zap.com/en/catalog/cars/au...6751e9d28fad/manufacturer/1/627109200::109010

for variable timing, if this control valve acts up, engine can be hard to start. Using an oscilloscope for checking timing, measuring camshaft sensor and crankshaft sensor, this can tell you wether there is a longer gap between camshaft and crankshaft. If longer when engine takes a lot of cranking, suspect VVT control issue.

Regards
Gremling
 
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