NZ - Touran wants an R32 engine

   #41  

golfi_vend

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How about correct tool and from cluster?
 
   #42  

NZDubNurd

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I had some issues with the A3 :(

The first few times I was connected, reading the milage from the cluster gave me something like 336XXXX (3.something million!) and EEPROM and IMMO data read blank. After a few attempts with different timing etc, I got the milage to read correctly from the cluster, but still blank IMMO data and EEPROM. Reading from the ECU, I couldn't access the IMMO data directly, but reading the EEPROM froze part way through each time - I could try that again sometime, but it froze the 4 times I tried.

I haven't yet tried pulling the fuse for the cluster, and reading the ECU - apparently that can work, and is sometimes required if you try to boot the ECU in bootmode while it's in the car.

I couldn't get the Touran to read the previous night either though, but I tried again last night and had immediate success with no changes made to the setup (that I am aware of anyway). At least access seems to confirm Golf_Vendi was correct about it being IMMO4a - the option to sync it is available in VCDS, so that side should work ;)

I thought the same tool would work, as the cars are SIMILAR architecture, but maybe not close enough.

I'll let you know if I have success :cool:

Thanks guys!
 
   #43  

NZDubNurd

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Mmmmm....... concerning:

Code:
Wednesday,26,November,2014,21:22:35:42165
VCDS -- Windows Based VAG/VAS Emulator
VCDS Version: 14.10.0.0 (x64)
Data version: 20141022


VIN: WAUZZZ8P94A155758   License Plate: A3
Mileage: 150140km-93292mi   Repair Order: immo challenge



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


                Address 25: Immobilizer
Control Module Part Number: 8P0 920 930 G
  Component and/or Version: KOMBIINSTR. VDO H25 0140
           Software Coding: 
            Work Shop Code: WSC 00000
                      VCID: 366309E241E3C891857-8063

Advanced Identification
     Serial number: AUX7Z0D2FNJ0DI
     Identification: VDD-024
     Revision: D09     
     Date: 19.03.04
     Test stand number: 7531
     Manufacturer number: 0486
Misc.
     Hardware number: 8P0 920 930 G
     Immo Challenge: A2 1E AE D1
Car Info
     Chassis Number: WAUZZZ8P94A155758
VCDS Info:
       Labels: 1K0-920-xxx-25.clb
The scan above, from the A3 Immo, says "Immo Challenge"... that's not what I wanted to see... is it?!?!!?

Pulling the cluster fuse and trying to read the SKC from the A3 immo didn't work either - I have a chip-clip coming though, so I can read it direct. However, lots of the Bosch ECU's use a 95040 EEPROM, mine has a 5P08C3 - which is hard to get much info on - not sure if they are direclty swappable with a 95040 -- that would have been easy, because I could program several of them for "practicing" with. I've seen it suggested they are swappable with the 95080 (8 bit, instead of 4 bit in the 95040), but no confirmation :rolleyes: It's a Bosch ME7.1.1, and seems to be the later 40 mhz type.

A VW guy from down the line (who offered me a drivetrain-less Touran!) suggested swapping all the Audi electronics into the Touran, effectively rebodying the A3 into the Touran. It'd just be a manual conversion on the wiring fiddling side. I wonder if this may be less trouble! Main issue being the A3 Has a different Instrument cluster shape, so wouldn't swap straight into the Touran dash, and I only have 1 key to the AUdi, but 2 for the Touran. I guess, being based on the same platform, thereis a chance the modules are swapable anyway - I was going to keep the A3 ABS, can gateway etc etc etc, so I could swap them if required. Maybe fitting all of them to start with might be easier :confused: I don't need the VINs to match, but it wold be nice for it all to look OEM.
 
   #44  

Uwe

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The scan above, from the A3 Immo, says "Immo Challenge"... that's not what I wanted to see... is it?!?!!?
We've known that the A3 cluster/immo is Immo 4C for a couple of weeks, so this should not be a surprise now.

Here's a silly thought: Would the entire A3 dashboard (including the cluster) fit in the Touran?

-Uwe-
 
   #46  

NZDubNurd

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We've known that the A3 cluster/immo is Immo 4C for a couple of weeks, so this should not be a surprise now.

Here's a silly thought: Would the entire A3 dashboard (including the cluster) fit in the Touran?

-Uwe-
I was obviously getting confused with the immo4 thing, as Golf-Vendi says below - perhaps the ECU isn't 4C??? I can't tell yet. I don't think.

I can physically fit the A3 clocks in the hole, but the plug in entirely different, and wold require more (substantial) rewiring :-(

Yes A3 cluster is 4C, but is also ECU 4C and withut channel 50, thats the question.

About your chip.
This site says it has a replacement. http://www.codecard.lt/electronics/...marked-as-5p08c3-in-so8-package/prod_240.html
5P08C3---ST95P08
Good to know! Will help with the readinng if nothing else! I can also try getting a complete R32 Golf 5 ECU, with would make everything VW again at least.

The Immo thing concerns me less than other stuff (I can still disable the IMMO), but I still have to be sure I can get ABS and ESP as well as the Airbags working OK. It's so hard to find info on the compatibility - there are a couple of R32 Coddy's in the UK, but still hard to get info.

I'm almost starting to consider just a manual conversion, but that's NOWHERE near as much fun as an R32 Touran :cool:

Hoping to fiddle with it more today, but the baby must be coming any minute (my Wife is over it - the brth was due two fridays ago!).
 
   #47  

NZDubNurd

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Had a talk with Wifey today...


Earlier in the thread Uwe said:
That's an ambitous project you're undertaking.
OK, like you suspected... I'm getting tempted to walk away from it! Does it sound like I've bitten off more than I can chew? I have some personal circumstances that have altered my thinking slightly very recently, and the 3rd baby coming (hopefully tonight!)

I'm going to take a break from it, then maybe just do a simple manual conversion to the FSI 2.0, and then maybe think about the rest of the conversion later???

Does that sound like I've grown some common sense?
 
   #48  

Uwe

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Hmmm... I don't know your circumstances, so I'm not sure I'm in a position to give personal advice. I do know when a baby is imminent, wives tend to get a little "funny". Mine certainly did a couple of decades ago when she was getting close and I kept going 150 miles away every weekend to work on an airplane that I'd made a marginally bad landing in. ;)

-Uwe-
 
   #49  

NZDubNurd

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For a couple of reasons, I'm going to have less time.

One is the new baby - came yesterday! "little" Silas - 9lbs 12oz :cool: Other is work, but a slightly complex extended family situation.

I'm very tempted to strip everything from the A3 and keep it in the garage.

This VW programming stuff seems overly complicated, when I compare it to the BMW stuff... but I know the BMW stuff, so of course it seems easier!!! I just don't know the VW stuff, or what I'll have to figure out.

I'm really struggling to work out what modules will be compatible with this conversion, so I think it best I dont rush in as quick as I was. At this stage, none of us are sure I can even get the R32 engine alone to talk to the other modules - without even considering the Haldex/4WD integration... are we???

I may have to get a 4cyl manual box, AND the VR6 manual box to fiddle with :-) Do one, then the other, while I try to work out what modules I might be able to integrate.

The Touran is actually nice to drive, so it'd be nice to get a decent solution eventually :cool:
 
   #50  

golfi_vend

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My suggestion would be connect the power and can wires to r32 ecu and touran wiring. Then check diffrent modules if they have communication errors.

Somehow i although think your r32 ecu will com easiely with other touran modules.
 
   #51  

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OK, I may have gotten past my temporary sanity ;)

I've been doing a lot of fiddling and checking, so may still be on track - just over a longer timeframe.

Silas has been sleeping most of the night (6 to 10 hours!), so I'm getting sleep! WooHoo - I'm off work until after Christmas, but can't see much car stuff happening!

I've coded the Touran cluster to AWD, and it screws up the fuel level, because it can only read one sender - makes sense! Coded it back OK and all is well. The additional sender is probably just a single wire that needs running, and just sends a resistance to earth to the additional pin on the cluster -It may be a loop from the cluster, but I'll look into that at the time - Caddy 4 motion and golf R32 are slightly different, though the resistance signal is fed into the same pin.

Gateway can be coded to AWD, and causes error in the ABS module for incorrect module - I knew that would happen too! the A3 ABS module is obviously an "allrad" AWD version, I'm just not 100% if it works with a manual conversion - I think so, but will find out later I guess!

I'm going to try coding the A3 ABS module to FWD, if so, I can fit it prior to the rest of the conversion, and just code it back to AWD later :cool:

My suggestion would be connect the power and can wires to r32 ecu and touran wiring. Then check diffrent modules if they have communication errors.

Somehow i although think your r32 ecu will com easiely with other touran modules.
That's a very good idea! I was thinking they'd "communicate", but was worried about compatibility - like the ABS module that needs to be changed to work with AWD etc. I'm doing a LOT of googling!


I read the EEPROM directly (with a SOIC8 clip) from the ME7.1.1 ECU of the A3, It read fine it seems, but the SKC isn't a valid one (as far as I'm aware) - it comes out as 6B FF, which after converting to FF6B, comes out as 65387. because FF = 255. I'll have to look further into that... still!
 
   #52  

Uwe

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My A3 (a 2006 2.0 TFSI, FWD, 6MT) uses a 5-digit PIN. We were surprised to see it that way back when, but it is definitely correct. We were rather surprised to see that since that's a 2006 and still thus still Immo 4A. In any case, I would not consider any value between 0 and 65535 implausible unless the module shows signs of rejection when you try it.

-Uwe-
 
   #53  

golfi_vend

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Have you tried this login yet?

Maybe if ECU doesn't accept it, you could try it in cluster(25-immobiliser).
Can't wait. ;)
 
   #54  

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Ummm...



Glad you guys suggested trying the number anyway - everything on the interwebnet suggests it will be only 4 digits - I was assuming 5 digits was just plain wrong! Thanks!

Worked on the Immo and ECU, but then tried to access ECU again, but it gave a warning about "required time" not elapsed, and "seed not sent", but I guess I just have to wait a while to try again.

Does this mean anything important?


Or is this only important when I swap the ECU into the Touran?

Thanks so much guys. I have another tired day today - I stayed up until midnight, solving wiring diagram riddles ;)

Happy, happy, joy, joy!!

Cheers,

Allan.
 
   #55  

golfi_vend

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On immobiliser(25) you can not use adaption channel 50, because of it being immo 4c. On ecu, maybe, check that out, I'm interested what results it will give. :)
I can't wait to see the result.
 
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   #56  

Uwe

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Yep, and he should be matching the ECU to the cluster rather than the cluster to the ECU, since (I assume) the cluster has the correct VIN for the car.

-Uwe-
 
   #57  

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On immobiliser(25) you can not use adaption channel 50, because of it being immo 4c. On ecu, maybe, check that out, I'm interested what results it will give. :)
I can't wait to see the result.
Channel 50:


Channel 91 (set to 4, which means IMMO enabled, yes?):
 
   #58  

golfi_vend

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Did you enter login before going to adaption menu?
There could be the case of immobilser being 4c and therefore not giving out any information to ecu when adaption channel 50 is opened.

I'm slowly learning this 4c stuff myself.
 
   #59  

Uwe

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Right, you need to do a security access to the ECU using the ECU's SKC before it makes any sense to even try the Channel 50 adaptation using the cluster's SKC. Channel 50 may indeed show as "Not Available" until you're "logged in" to the ECU.

-Uwe-
 
   #60  

golfi_vend

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And when opening channel 50 in already matched car, in your case Audi. You enter the same pin as in ECU, as the systems are matched.
 
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