NZ - Touran wants an R32 engine

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NZDubNurd

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Hi all,

I haven't recieved by cable yet, but it cleared customs today, so should be here very soon!

So far, the newest VW I have personally owned is an '84 T3 Transporter (Vanagon), but have owned many older ones. We also have a 2013 T5 Transporter for work: 2.0 BiTdi, 6 speed LWB, high roof, 4Motion - perfect for a camper when the lease is up! I wonder if it's safe to use VCDS on it, as it's under warranty still, plus owned by the lease company :confused:

VCDS is VERY new to me, though I have used BMW software fairly extensively on our 2001 525i (amongst other things) - I'm not sure that makes it any easier, because the systems are VERY different!

I'm hoping to embark on an extensive (and silly ;)) project - building an "R32-ran" - a 1T1 Touran with Golf R32 running gear. We need a little more space for the family, but I want to retain a safe car, but it must perform well - so the R32 idea came to be! Plus who can resist the sound of the R32 engine!

At some stage I'll need to ask some silly questions, but from what I can find so far, fitting the R32 from a MK4 Golf shouldn't be much of a drama (other than HOURS of wring modifications).

I'm still investgating what modules may have issues comunicating, though it seems that the engine ECU is pretty easy, as long as I have the immobiliser deleted. Hopefully coding the instument cluster to a 6 cyinder is as easy as BMW stuff, and getting the ECU/ABS/ESP/Traction control etc to communicate isn't an issue - I have to have the safety features functioning to get engineering certification.

I may leave the 4-motion conversion for later, but it seems silly to have the 3.2 VR6 without it!

Looking forward to recieving the cable and having a play with something!

Allan
(Whangarei, New Zealand)
 
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Uwe

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Welcome to the forum.

That's an ambitous project you're undertaking. I'm questioning using a VR6 form a Mk.4, since the Touran is a Mk.5 chassis?

As for the T5, yes, it's safe to scan it.

-Uwe-
 
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siLc

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Better yet, why not get a (rear-ended) Mk5 R32 donor vehicle?
 
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Welcome to the forum.

That's an ambitous project you're undertaking. I'm questioning using a VR6 form a Mk.4, since the Touran is a Mk.5 chassis?

As for the T5, yes, it's safe to scan it.

-Uwe-
Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't the upgrade in R32 on mkv chassis consist of some software and upgraded manifold. Mounts should be the same, electrics yes, so you would need to have some heavy wiring and a new ECU to communication on CAN.

EDIT: If you delete immo in your ECU, i think cluster will be unhappy about it. Why not to things the correct way?
 
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NZDubNurd

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Thanks guys,

Getting hold of R32 gear here in NZ is fairly tricky! a MK4 version engine loom and 6 speed is here, and I'm hoping they are compatible (REALLY hoping).

In the UK, the R32 has been put into the 2K caddy (Touran/mk5 chassis), but I'm unable to find out if they used mk4 or mk5 yet. Apparently the ECU is the same Bosch ME7.1.1, but not sure of compatibilty.

We have a LOT of used Japanese import cars here, and most tend to be the ordinary versions, or automatic. I ONLY want manual.

I need to try to find what data in comunicated between the engine ECU and the other modules: I assume the ESP can tell the ecu to control the throttle, so I am somewhat concerned!

ANY help is appreciated! ;)

Thanks.
 
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golfi_vend

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Noooo, not the manual/automatic fight again :)
 
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NZDubNurd

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Ahahaha! I seriously HATE autos, plus they spend so much time going p and down gears around here, they just have issues :-). Plus... I could just buy a camry or something else mundane, and get a labotomy :p

I tell my wife that I only do manuals, "Because it makes it safer and more fuel efficient"... which is the same reasoning for the R32 repower... :rolleyes:

Uwe, funny you post the baby - our next is due on Friday! Though apparently my wifes oven is a it slow - the others were 10 and 18 days over.


Anyway! I have been trawling MK4 R32 diagrams, It does show a low and high canbus - The R32 was only availble for the end of MK4 production, so I'm hoping that's on my side! It does, however, still have a speed signal sent from a hall sender in the transmission, via the cluster, to the ECU... but so does the MK5 R32! The ECU wiring is basically the same (obb minor change to connectors etc), though I have also heard that a MK5 ecu won't work on a MK4 engine, as the cam sensor signal is different. It might be true!?!?

So far, the drivetrain CAN on both models seems to be the same, I just don't know if the car sends other data around, or how it will work with the Touran CAN...

Am I barking up the wrong tree, or maight this actually work? ANy ideas on how to check?

Cheers,

Allan.
 
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golfi_vend

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Didnt mkv use abs senspr, and gear sensor is left our?
 
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NZDubNurd

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Didnt mkv use abs senspr, and gear sensor is left our?
Ugh! Woke up sick this morning... probably shouldn't have been looking at diagrams so late either :(

So... I can't find where I saw the speed sensor on the MK5 now - So I think you are right! AHHHHH! That would be the norm for a full-on CANbus system (like our BMW is).

Back to more investigating...
 
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golfi_vend

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I've been thinking.

If you put mkiv ECU and IF they are the same "motronic", looking at mkiv wiring, it shows me that it still has output from cluster to ECU transmitting speed, which makes me think that you have to do some reflash on ecu to get mkv stuff onto it.

I don't have much experience with ECU flash and software but i know how they should work.
 
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NZDubNurd

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Yeah... the reflash thing worries me, as it's not something I've done before... but can it be much harder than a comples Access database :confused: I've done that! :o

I think the problem may be that SOME of the code may need to be changed, but updating to the complete MK5 software may cause other issues (like the cam sensor signal - I don't know if the signal is different, the trigger is different, or if it's just a different sensor/plug and can be swapped or rewired to suit either type). Apparently the ECU is quicker in the MK5 too. Elsewhere, someone said running the MK5 ECU on the MK4 engine is fine, just need to change the fuel rail and some wiring connectors.

But all the info I get is non-confirmed and can cause great expense if it's wrong! :eek:

I'm going to ask a wrecker what it'll cost for a setup from a PQ35 platform car - maybe audi A3 etc, though they won't have manual boxes, and I'll have to convert that at the same time... otherwise it'll have to be a whole new plan! NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

I REALLY want this noise:
 
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Uwe

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I REALLY want this noise
Had that kind of noise once, in this car:



That was only a 12V, but I do miss the VR6 sound. Yes, yes, I still have a 24V VR6, but it's all stock in a T4, and that ain't the same at all. ;)

-Uwe-
 
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NZDubNurd

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Yes, yes, I still have a 24V VR6, but it's all stock in a T4, and that ain't the same at all. ;)
Hmmm... probably not quite ;) A T4 was nother option, but trying to park it in town her wouldn't be easy for my wife!



I think I've found a local source for an R32 ECU from a MK5, so that should overcome my electrical issues (other than having to spend 100's of hours re-running wiring and making a new loom with the wrong colours for the diagram!). If not... EBAY!

IF the cam sensors are an issue, I'll try retrofitting the MK5 ones, and if the trigger wheels are different, I'll have to smash the crap out of that bridge IF I get to it....

In other news, I have another interested party in my Transporter, so R32ran may get a start soon.

In other other news, did an autoscan on my work van, so can see my serial number in VCDS now... :)
 
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NZDubNurd

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And...

In other other other news...



I did "technically" start on the project...

It was $800 more than the one I was eyeing up already, but the colour is awesome (seriously - I'm not actually a chick though). 2 years newer too. Hopefully it looks as good as the pics :cool:
 
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golfi_vend

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It needs touran 1t2 front end with afs xenon :D .
 
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NZDubNurd

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HA!

Nah, I don't like the 1T2 Front, but the latest Caddy front can go on (with a bit of work). I can tell my wife it's new then :)
 
   #18  

Uwe

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Assuming you get this thing built, will your wife be willing to drive it? Better yet, will she enjoy driving it? If so, you're a lucky man. :cool:

-Uwe-
 
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NZDubNurd

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Assuming you get this thing built, will your wife be willing to drive it? Better yet, will she enjoy driving it? If so, you're a lucky man. :cool:
She'll drive anything really - Her cars have always been a little more normal, but mine have been... err "unusual" - she's driven all of them and been happy enough. If I didn't tell her I was "improving" the Touran, she'd have just assumed it was normal :) Enjoy/Tolerate - is the same thing :rolleyes:

EVERY auto car we had (3), i either converted to manual, or it was investigated in depth :cool:

Since we were married:
I got her a 5 cyl Honda Inspire Gen2 (like a Vigor), a Subaru Impreza, and the E39 525i.

I had: VW Squareback, Suzuki Cappuccino 660cc turbo, Daihatsu Mira 850, Daihastu Max 360 2 stroke, Suzuki Wagon R+ 1.0 Turbo, VW Beetle, T3 Kombi (Vanagon) with EJ25..... amongst the more normal and work related cars :-).

If I pull off the "R32ran", I'd want it to be as "stock" seeming as possible. From the outside, it'll be a real sleeper (I already ordered mudflaps!), but I may go up to 17" wheel to get better performance tyres.

Basically, I'm only going to use funds from the "vehicle fund" which will involve selling something. If the deals I've got setup so far go through, the R32 swap should be easy. If not, it'll be a manual conversion, and maybe even look into doing the 4-motion, in case I still go R32 later ;)

I'm not going to get stuck on one thing or nothing, but I want to aim for what I really want, and see how far I get. I'd like to think it would be desirable enough at the end to get my money back... but that's hardly a reality ;)

If nothing else, my wife should be a little happy: instead of spending hours soaking up information off internet fourms, I'll be stuck in the garage filling buckets with wire insulation strippings and removing fingerprints with a soldering iron (which is a Weller solder station about my age, because I know the other VW Nerds on here like to know these things!).
 
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NZDubNurd

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Sheeeesh... I seem to be using up ALLL my forum words on here!

Touran is here - I'm just about to go save an auto scan from it...

In FAR more exciting news - local to me, someone has a wrecked Audi A3 3.2! It's a DSG, which I REALLY don't want (in case you missed it earlier), but I'm hoping it's a quattro too - that would give me the rear subframe and haldex, correct shaped fuel tank etc for the 4-motion - I'd only have the manual 6 speed so source then :cool: Hopefully the guy isn't too *rich* with his prices though.


Sooooooooooooooooo... can I get the SKC from the complete car, so I can do the conversion and keep the immobiliser in tact (Or is that something I'm not supposed to ask here??? :confused:)
 
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