2014 VW T5 Transporter 4motion retrofit

   #1  

Maverik

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Hi folks, shiney new to the forum and looking for some high level advice.
I'm looking at the feasibility of retrofitting 4motion to a 2014 T5.1 transporter van. The hardware side I'm reasonably confident about but I'm trying to work out the electrical/control side, I know there are independent haldex controllers available but ideally I'd like the retrofit to work as vw intended, so question is can my present ecu be "unlocked" or reprogrammed to accept the 4motion haldex control or do i need to start off with an ecu from a 4motion van, forgive me if its a bit of a beginners question but I'm a little new to vw's.
Thanks all.

Mav
 
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iichel

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I guess it depends a bit on what ECU is currently in there, and whether your car is manual/DSG and what it's supposed to become.
Since you came to the home of VCDS, do you have an interface? And if so, could you post an autoscan (see below)?
 
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NZDubNurd

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Bare in mind, I don't know much about Transporters at all... but we do have a 2013 BiTDI 4motion 6 speed LWB high roof for our work van :-) Had it since new, and it's now covered 57,000 kms / 35,000 miles :D

I have retrofitted 4motion in my VW Touran, which is a MK5 (PQ35) platform car - My understanding is that the 2 systems are very similar electronically, but mechanically a bit different... same theory though.

Certainly the the PQ35 cars at least, the haldex and the ABS system have to be compatible, but not necessarily the Engine ECU or anything else. The cluster gets coded for 4WD, because it gains and extra fuel level sensor, but that may not apply to the transporter. The Haldex only required power, earth, CAN high, CAN low, and a backup brake signal wire.

SSP333 describes the system.

Tranporters aren't so easy to find info on, but it'll pay to hunt out some autoscans, and find what ever info you can on Erwin and forums etc. (Just don't always beleieve everything you read, without verifying it!). There WILL be the possibility of some expensive trial and error - modules may require changing, that weren't planned for etc.

Easiest answer though: Don't build, what you can buy - can you not just buy a 4motion Transporter? There will be a lot of work/time/parts required to do the swap.
 
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Maverik

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Hi guys, thanks for the replies, Allan got to say you've already given me a heap of homework of stuff to look up... simple amswer to your simple question - I've got the perfect van bar it not being 4x4, but I've not got a wallet big enough to change it but its maybe big enough for a "small" project, hence looking at the 4 motion retrofit, the mechanicals is easy but I'm just sussing out if I've got what it takes to sort the control side out I'm an engineer by profession and a bit of a fettler in my spare time (mainly with land rovers), also a sucker for desperately difficult jobs with a low chance of success :) - i actually came across this forum due to the lack of decent answers i could find anywhere else, its already proved an eye opener, its not put me off but I've got a fair bit to cach up with regarding the control structure of these vehicles. Just still googling the references in the last post. And reviewing ssp333. Will put up a few more details/questions a little later...

Cheers

Mav
 
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NZDubNurd

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simple amswer to your simple question - I've got the perfect van bar it not being 4x4, but I've not got a wallet big enough to change it but its maybe big enough for a "small" project, hence looking at the 4 motion retrofit, the mechanicals is easy but I'm just sussing out if I've got what it takes to sort the control side out
I missed iichel relpying, somehow... If you can get an Autoscan from someone with VCDS (a genuine one!), it may help anyone who has more info/knowledge. Is yours manual trans?

You sound a bit similar to me. Crazy - that's the word :thumbs:

When researching be aware: it is 100% possible to retrofit 4motion... it may cost a little, when finding parts and having goof fortune with compatible parts... it may also require a complete donor van, incredible welding/bodywork skills, dealer coding visits, VCDS, and a complete drivetrain module set swap :D In which case, it WAS cheaper to buy the 4motion van, but it's now too late! :thumbs:

As I say, mine is quite different to yours (AND had an engine conversion at the same time), but the thread in my signature is the conversion thread for my Touran. Much of it won't apply to you, but you need to be aware you could be opening a giant can of worms that may be expensive to finish :cool:

Have fun with that research.
 
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Maverik

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So still got reading to do but here's some details and my rational.
Van is a 2014 T5.1 2lt (bi turbo) 6 speed manual, is a reasonably high spec panel van. I've been under her and had the tank out as part of a camper conversion and I'm pretty sure that all the mounting points for the rear diff are in positon. I've potentially got the extra drive train on a pallet waiting, so quietly confident that most of the hardware will bolt in with not so much trouble - if it doesn't then I'll make it work.
I'm pretty keen to do some delving into the control side so I'll be looking at getting myself set up with software, if you're advice is not far off, as 4motion T5's are fairly common and as it was a factory option, I'm hoping that getting everything talking to to each other should be fairly do-able. - I've got my eye on a few ex 4motion van parts - ABS/ESP ECU etc, question - are ABS ECU's interchangeable meaning are they coded in any way to the engine ECU or are they stand alone?

I know there's a lot of "hoping" and "confident" in that paragraph I'm actually as pessimistic as they come hence why I'm trying to get my head around whether or not this is even semi sensibly feasible before I spend some cash... :)
 
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NZDubNurd

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How Convenient... Like I say, our work van is a 2013 bi turbo :D and 4motion 6 speed!

If I only I could find the scan of it - I thought I posted it here in the reference scan section... I may have to scan it again one day :thumbs:
 
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Maverik

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So I've been doing some homework this morning, please bear with.
VagCom is a tool that talks to the various modules in the vehicle, it allows you to potentially change settings that were designed to be changed by the manufacturer, some are basic values other more advanced. –

Autoscans are a snap shot of the modules in the system there location and definition as well as how each module is configured, so an autoscan is enough for you to configure a module a certain way.
But in some cases there are hardware differences in which case it doesn't matter how hard you try tweaking the software settings it just wont work. - as long as the module gets the zero's and one’s its expecting it will be happy.

So from reading the R32ran thread and some others - the general method for working stuff out is comparing it to know good source info and know what actions it produces, so having an autoscan of a 4motion bi turbo 6 speed van is actually mega helpful to me, as in theory all I would have to do is match the module set-up of that vehicle with mine :)

Baby steps. Ok so now all I need is a windows machine and a copy of VCDS - kicking myself as I recently just moved an old laptop from Windows to Linux... doh.

Fyi Allan, amazing work on that Touran, great attention to detail, your persistence does you credit.
 
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NZDubNurd

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Scan from this AM :thumbs:

Turns out it's a 2014 model year anyway, according to VIN. It was delivered August 27th, so it must have been on a pretty fast boat from Germany to NZ. Was only a 3 month wait from ordering too.

There is a note for the ABS long coding helper to contact Ross-tech because of limited info.


FYI - order your choice of VCDS before starting... I had my cable before the Touran even arrived :D Even if you don't go ahead with the project, it'll come in handy for diagnostics later :cool: VW's like diagnostics ;) It also means you can scan vehicles at shows or shops etc, if the owners are happy to let you :-) You can build your own little database of mod scans.


Code:
Wednesday,22,August,2018,07:34:38:42165
VCDS -- Windows Based VAG/VAS Emulator Running on Windows 7 x64
VCDS Version: 18.2.1.5 (x64)
Data version: 20180518 DS287.2
www.Ross-Tech.com


VIN: WV1ZZZ7HZEH010274   License Plate: HAW484
Mileage: 60300km-37468mi   Repair Order: 



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Chassis Type: 7H-VN75 (6N0)
Scan: 01 03 04 08 09 10 15 17 19 22 25 56 77

VIN: WV1ZZZ7HZEH010274   Mileage: 60300km-37468miles

01-Engine -- Status: OK 0000
03-ABS Brakes -- Status: OK 0000
04-Steering Angle -- Status: OK 0000
08-Auto HVAC -- Status: Malfunction 0010
09-Cent. Elect. -- Status: OK 0000
10-Park/Steer Assist -- Status: OK 0000
15-Airbags -- Status: OK 0000
17-Instruments -- Status: OK 0000
19-CAN Gateway -- Status: OK 0000
22-AWD -- Status: OK 0000
25-Immobilizer -- Status: OK 0000
56-Radio -- Status: OK 0000
77-Telephone -- Status: Malfunction 0010
 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 01: Engine (J623-CFCA)       Labels:. 03L-906-022-CFC.clb
   Part No SW: 03L 906 022 JC    HW: 03L 907 309 H
   Component: R4 2,0L EDC   H36 9109  
   Revision: 22H36---    Serial number: 00000000000000
   Coding: 01190012230600080000
   Shop #: WSC 02736 790 50316
   ASAM Dataset: EV_ECM20BTD01103L906022JC 002007
   ROD: EV_ECM20BTD01103L906022JC.rod
   VCID: 6FEDFC86B639B93CCD-803A

No fault code found.
Readiness: 0 0 0 0 0 

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 03: ABS Brakes (-----)       Labels:. 7E0-907-37x-MK25AXT.clb
   Part No SW: 7E0 907 379 K    HW: 7E0 907 379 E
   Component: ESP MK25A XT  H43 0110  
   Revision: 00H43001    
   Coding: 908724AD91A5099524A48978A96210
   Shop #: WSC 02736 790 49152
   VCID: 3A7B1DD2B5FB2C942A-806E

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 08: Auto HVAC (J301)       Labels:| 7E5-907-047.clb
   Part No SW: 7E5 907 047 BM    HW: 7E5 907 047 BM
   Component: Climatic-T5   H20 0505  
   Revision: 00001011    
   Coding: 0000000002
   Shop #: WSC 02736 790 50316
   ASAM Dataset: EV_ClimaticT5 A01003
   ROD: EV_ClimaT5Basis.rod
   VCID: 7BF5D8D6F241D59C71-802E

1 Fault Found:
9473905 - Motor for Temperature Flap 
          B108F 71 [008] - Actuator stuck
          Intermittent - Confirmed - Tested Since Memory Clear
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 00000001
                    Fault Priority: 2
                    Fault Frequency: 1
                    Reset counter: 77
                    Mileage: 59384 km
                    Date: 2018.07.31
                    Time: 07:15:52


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 09: Cent. Elect. (J519)       Labels:. 7H0-937-08x-09.clb
   Part No SW: 7H0 937 086 M    HW: 7H0 937 086 
   Component: BCM T5GPM++4  H34 0411  
   Revision: BM034001    Serial number: 0572 154130063
   Coding: E0A0303A0A212031002808102C2B8CD40000432F60064000320000000000
   Shop #: WSC 02736 790 00000
   VCID: 3D7116CEA4D51BAC0F-8068

   Subsystem 1 - Part No SW: 7E0 959 801 B    HW: 7E0 959 801 B  Labels: 7E0-959-80X-V1.CLB
   Component: J386__TSG_FT  002 3313 
   Serial number: --------------------
   Coding: 010000

   Subsystem 2 - Part No SW: 7E0 959 802 B    HW: 7E0 959 802 B  Labels: 7E0-959-80X-V1.CLB
   Component: J387__TSG_BT  002 3313 
   Serial number: --------------------
   Coding: 000000

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 10: Park/Steer Assist (J446)       Labels:| 7E0-919-475.clb
   Part No SW: 7E0 919 475 K    HW: 1Q0 919 475 
   Component: PARKHILFE 4K  H03 0106  
   Revision: --------    Serial number: 32931312600429
   Coding: 108001
   Shop #: WSC 02736 790 50316
   ASAM Dataset: EV_VW75XParkAssis4K 001004
   ROD: EV_VW75XParkAssis4K_001.rod
   VCID: 3A7B1DD2BDFB2C942A-806E

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 15: Airbags (J234)       Labels:| 5K0-959-655.clb
   Part No SW: 7E0 959 655 B    HW: 7E0 959 655 B
   Component: VW10Airbag009 H07 0013  
   Revision: --------    Serial number: 003HL00J07TA
   Coding: 000000000000000000000000000000003039
   Shop #: WSC 02734 790 50316
   ASAM Dataset: EV_AirbaVW10BPAVN750 A01026
   ROD: EV_AirbaVW10BPAVN750_VW12.rod
   VCID: 35610EEE94E5C3ECC7-8060

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 17: Instruments (J285)       Labels:| 5K0-920-xxx-17.clb-SRI1
   Part No SW: 7E0 920 870 J    HW: 7E0 920 870 J
   Component: KOMBI         H04 0710  
   Serial number: 00000000000000
   Coding: 160A01
   Shop #: WSC 02736 790 50316
   ASAM Dataset: EV_Kombi_UDS_VDD_RM09 A04723
   ROD: EV_Kombi_UDS_VDD_RM09_004_VW32.rod
   VCID: 306F3FFA6B87E6C494-8064

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 19: CAN Gateway (J533)       Labels:. 6N0-909-901-6R.clb
   Part No SW: 6N0 909 901     HW: 7H0 937 086 
   Component: GW-K-CAN TP20 H34 0411  
   Revision: BM034001    
   Coding: 042300
   Shop #: WSC 02736 790 00000
   VCID: 70EFFFFAA307A6C4D4-8024

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 22: AWD        Labels: 0AY-907-554-V1.clb
   Part No SW: 09N 907 554 B    HW: 09N 907 554 B
   Component: Haldex 4Motion      6008  
   Coding: 0000009
   Shop #: WSC 02736 790 00000
   VCID: 377D04E646E931FCD5-8062

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 25: Immobilizer (J334)       Labels:| 5K0-920-xxx-25.clb
   Part No SW: 5K0 953 234     HW: 5K0 953 234 
   Component: IMMO          H04 0710  
   Serial number:               
   Coding: 000000
   Shop #: WSC 00000 000 00000
   ASAM Dataset: EV_Immo_UDS_VDD_RM09 A03710
   ROD: EV_Immo_UDS_VDD_RM09.rod
   VCID: 6ADBED928DDB5C149A-803E

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 56: Radio (J503)       Labels:. 5M0-035-1xx-56.clb
   Part No SW: 5M0 035 186 J    HW: 5M0 035 186 J
   Component: Radio RCD310  042 0082  
   Revision: 01000001    Serial number: VWZ1Z2N1584588
   Coding: 05000200020014
   Shop #: WSC 02734 790 00000
   VCID: 336530F69291DDDCE9-8066

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 77: Telephone (J412)       Labels:| 7P6-035-730.clb
   Part No SW: 7P6 035 730 J    HW: 7P6 035 730 J
   Component: TELEFON       H15 3200  
   Revision: 1B001001    Serial number: 00007664889793
   Coding: 0A01010000010101
   Shop #: WSC 02736 790 50316
   ASAM Dataset: EV_UHVNA 002720
   ROD: EV_UHVNA_002.rod
   VCID: 397902DEB8FD278C23-806C

1 Fault Found:
9458195 - Control Module for Cellular Telephone 
          B1052 13 [008] - Open Circuit
          [New feature! Extended UDS fault detail is only supported by current gen. interfaces]
          Intermittent - Confirmed - Tested Since Memory Clear
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 00000001
                    Fault Priority: 4
                    Fault Frequency: 250
                    Reset counter: 88


End-------------------------(Elapsed Time: 02:28)--------------------------
 
   #10  

Maverik

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Ok, only 2 years later, but just bought myself a VCDS, might finally get this idea followed up on :)
 
   #11  

dnoermann

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If you start that Retrofit, than get a RearDiff with the DiffLock, too.
More fun :)
Regarding ABS coding, i can help. PM me when you need it.
 
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