Golf MK7 Halogen Tail lights

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witchcraftz

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I have seen a few MK7 Golfs that are coded to make the tail lights alternate on turn signal - I believe it's called Kencha effect.

I like it a lot but was wondering if it could be modified to make it so that the inner, then outer of each light activates in sequence and stays on until the signal restarts?

for example turning right, the 2 tail lights would be: inside right tail light (inner square) -> inside right tail light (outer square) -> outside right tail light (inner square) -> outside right tail light (outer square)
 
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myounus

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Hi
I'm not sure if what your suggesting is what's already possible using a third party interface. If you search the internet for dynamic indicators or semi-dynamic, maybe that's what you're looking for
 
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witchcraftz

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Thanks for the reply, the dynamic indicator modules aren't what I'm looking for since those are for LED tails, I'm looking for coding for Halogen tails.

There is coding to make Halogen Tails blink in an alternating patter. I want it to be more obvious, with the lights turning on in sequence starting from inner (inner square) -> inner (outer L) -> outer (inner square) -> outer (outer L)
If that makes sense?

Here is a video of the blinking in a alternating pattern.
https://youtu.be/layiwsIq1mk?t=23

Here is the coding that makes it blink in a alternating pattern:

For the coding, Everything is done under Central Electrics with access code 31347 and Adaptation. From that menu, verify all the following settings:

Left outer Tail Function Value Notes
(1)-Leuchte20BR LA71-Lasttyp 20 35 - kombinierte LED Blink-Bremsleuchten Recommended setting if you are running LED bulbs
(2)-Leuchte20BR LA71-Lampendefektbitposition 20 13
(3)-Leuchte20BR LA71-Fehlerort mittleres Byte DTC-DFCC 20 3D
(4)-Leuchte20BR LA71-Lichtfunktion A 20 Bremslicht
(5)-Leuchte20BR LA71-Lichtfunktion B 20 Blinken links Dunkelphase
(6)-Leuchte20BR LA71-Dimmwert AB 20 100
(7)-Leuchte20BR LA71-Lichtansteuerung HD AB 20 Always
(8)-Leuchte20BR LA71-Lichtfunktion C 20 Standlicht allgemein (Schlusslicht; Positionslicht; Begrenzungslicht)
(9)-Leuchte20BR LA71-Lichtfunktion D 20 not active
(10)-Leuchte20BR LA71-Dimmwert CD 20 36 Value 47 if standard LED bulbs
(11)-Leuchte20BR LA71-Dimming Direction CD 20 maximize
(12)-Leuchte20BR LA71-Lichtfunktion E 20 Blinken links Hellphase
(13)-Leuchte20BR LA71-Lichtfunktion F 20 not active
(14)-Leuchte20BR LA71-Dimmwert EF 20 0
(15)-Leuchte20BR LA71-Dimming Direction EF 20 minimize
(16)-Leuchte20BR LA71-Lichtfunktion G 20 not active
(17)-Leuchte20BR LA71-Lichtfunktion H 20 not active
(18)-Leuchte20BR LA71-Dimmwert GH 20 0
(19)-Leuchte20BR LA71-Dimming Direction GH 20 maximize

Right Outer Function Value Notes
(1)-Leuchte21BR RC8-Lasttyp 21 35 - kombinierte LED Blink-Bremsleuchten Recommended setting if you are running LED bulbs
(2)-Leuchte21BR RC8-Lampendefektbitposition 21 23
(3)-Leuchte21BR RC8-Fehlerort mittleres Byte DTC-DFCC 21 3E
(4)-Leuchte21BR RC8-Lichtfunktion A 21 Bremslicht
(5)-Leuchte21BR RC8-Lichtfunktion B 21 Blinken rechts Dunkelphase
(6)-Leuchte21BR RC8-Dimmwert AB 21 100
(7)-Leuchte21BR RC8-Lichtansteuerung HD AB 21 Always
(8)-Leuchte21BR RC8-Lichtfunktion C 21 Standlicht allgemein (Schlusslicht; Positionslicht; Begrenzungslicht)
(9)-Leuchte21BR RC8-Lichtfunktion D 21 not active
(10)-Leuchte21BR RC8-Dimmwert CD 21 36 Value 47 if standard LED bulbs
(11)-Leuchte21BR RC8-Dimming Direction CD 21 maximize
(12)-Leuchte21BR RC8-Lichtfunktion E 21 Blinken rechts Hellphase
(13)-Leuchte21BR RC8-Lichtfunktion F 21 not active
(14)-Leuchte21BR RC8-Dimmwert EF 21 0
(15)-Leuchte21BR RC8-Dimming Direction EF 21 minimize
(16)-Leuchte21BR RC8-Lichtfunktion G 21 not active
(17)-Leuchte21BR RC8-Lichtfunktion H 21 not active
(18)-Leuchte21BR RC8-Dimmwert GH 21 0
(19)-Leuchte21BR RC8-Dimming Direction GH 21 maximize

Left Inner Function Notes
(1)-Leuchte23SL HLC10-Lasttyp 23 35 - kombinierte LED Blink-Bremsleuchten Recommended setting if you are running LED bulbs
(2)-Leuchte23SL HLC10-Lampendefektbitposition 23 0A
(3)-Leuchte23SL HLC10-Fehlerort mittleres Byte DTC-DFCC 23 29
(4)-Leuchte23SL HLC10-Lichtfunktion A 23 Bremslicht
(5)-Leuchte23SL HLC10-Lichtfunktion B 23 Blinken links Hellphase
(6)-Leuchte23SL HLC10-Dimmwert AB 23 100
(7)-Leuchte23SL HLC10-Lichtansteuerung HD AB 23 Always
(8)-Leuchte23SL HLC10-Lichtfunktion C 23 Standlicht allgemein (Schlusslicht; Positionslicht; Begrenzungslicht)
(9)-Leuchte23SL HLC10-Lichtfunktion D 23 not active
(10)-Leuchte23SL HLC10-Dimmwert CD 23 36 Value 47 if standard LED bulbs
(11)-Leuchte23SL HLC10-Dimming Direction CD 23 maximize
(12)-Leuchte23SL HLC10-Lichtfunktion E 23 Blinken links Dunkelphase
(13)-Leuchte23SL HLC10-Lichtfunktion F 23 not active
(14)-Leuchte23SL HLC10-Dimmwert EF 23 0
(15)-Leuchte23SL HLC10-Dimming Direction EF 23 minimize
(16)-Leuchte23SL HLC10-Lichtfunktion G 23 not active
(17)-Leuchte23SL HLC10-Lichtfunktion H 23 not active
(18)-Leuchte23SL HLC10-Dimmwert GH 23 0
(19)-Leuchte23SL HLC10-Dimming Direction GH 23 maximize

Right Inner Function Value Notes
(1)-Leuchte24SL HRA65-Lasttyp 24 35 - kombinierte LED Blink-Bremsleuchten Recommended setting if you are running LED bulbs
(2)-Leuchte24SL HRA65-Lampendefektbitposition 24 1A
(3)-Leuchte24SL HRA65-Fehlerort mittleres Byte DTC-DFCC 24 2A
(4)-Leuchte24SL HRA65-Lichtfunktion A 24 Bremslicht
(5)-Leuchte24SL HRA65-Lichtfunktion B 24 Blinken rechts Hellphase
(6)-Leuchte24SL HRA65-Dimmwert AB 24 100
(7)-Leuchte24SL HRA65-Lichtansteuerung HD AB 24 Always
(8)-Leuchte24SL HRA65-Lichtfunktion C 24 Standlicht allgemein (Schlusslicht; Positionslicht; Begrenzungslicht)
(9)-Leuchte24SL HRA65-Lichtfunktion D 24 not active
(10)-Leuchte24SL HRA65-Dimmwert CD 24 36 Value 47 if standard LED bulbs
(11)-Leuchte24SL HRA65-Dimming Direction CD 24 maximize
(12)-Leuchte24SL HRA65-Lichtfunktion E 24 Blinken rechts Dunkelphase
(13)-Leuchte24SL HRA65-Lichtfunktion F 24 not active
(14)-Leuchte24SL HRA65-Dimmwert EF 24 0
(15)-Leuchte24SL HRA65-Dimming Direction EF 24 minimize
(16)-Leuchte24SL HRA65-Lichtfunktion G 24 not active
(17)-Leuchte24SL HRA65-Lichtfunktion H 24 not active
(18)-Leuchte24SL HRA65-Dimmwert GH 24 10
(19)-Leuchte24SL HRA65-Dimming Direction GH 24 maximize
 
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DV52

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^^^ witchcraft: hi - you are not the first to have asked this question. ASAIK (and I'm more than happy to be advised otherwise), the short answer is that it's not possible to get the effect that you describe purely from Leuchte programming on a mk7 - regardless of whether the tails are LED or incandescent.

Dynamic tails in the mk7.5 (as per myounus suggestion) use additional hardware circuits which are embedded into the fittings to achieve the LED chaser effect. While I appreciate that the effect that you describe is different, it is kind-of similar in that sequence relies on a short time delay between the successive illumination of adjacent lamps be they intra, or inter fitting.


BUT (and there is always a "but'), unlike LEDs which produce light by releasing energy in the form of photons, incandescent lamps produce light by heating a filament (I^2R). And, while the filament in a tail-light lamp has a small thermal time constant, the time needed to heat the filament to produce even a modicum of illumination is still much longer than that needed to switch-on an LED. What I think this means is that even if you are able to source an electronic device for your tails, I suspect that the cumulative time delay to allow 4 x incandescent lamps to illuminate and then to chase the previous lamp will be insufficient for the turn signal switch ON/OFF frequency. My suspicion is that you will simply run-out of time with 4 x incandescent lamps - I think!


However, in the dim recesses of my aging and severely addled memory, I can vaguely recall that Deutsche Auto Parts used to sell an add-on piece of hardware for their tail-light harnesses that caused a brief time delay between the inner and outer mk7 fittings when the turn signals operated. However, my recollection is that the electronic delay device was intended for LED fittings.

Being from the Antipodes, I've never used DAP stuff, but I understand that they are an American business. So, if you want to still pursue your requirements and if President Trump hasn't completely shut-off trade across the USA/Canadian border, it might be worth pursuing this lead ;)

Another option - if you are prepared to experiment is THIS - but I suspect that the "incandescent" problem will still be binding!

Don
 
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witchcraftz

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Hi Don, thanks for the awesome and comprehensive answer.

How about instead off each light turning on and off in sequence, it stayed on until the entire sequence was illuminated, then all 4 turn off and the sequence repeats?

Alternatively, the same sequence with both square and L lights illuminating would be ok too. In this model the inside lights turn on, stay on, the outside lights turn on, both turn off, repeats.
 
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DV52

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^^^ witchcraftz: Man (I assume perhaps incorrectly that you are male) - you have an active imagination (which is a very good thing)! :D

I was remiss in my previous response in not explaining the reason why Leutche programming is deficient in achieving your needs. Please forgive my omission - my only defense is that I have an over-fondness for electronic circuitry and it sometimes (always?) becomes an obsession in my written meanderings !!

So, back to your other suggestions - take a look at the available commands for the 8 x adaptation channels with the descriptor "Lichtfunktion" in each Leuchte-set (a Leuchte-set being a group of 19 x adaptation channels which controls an exterior lamp via a pin on the BCM). Yes, the good Burghers at VW headquarters have created an impressive and extensive list of available lighting functions for these channels, but ASAIK, none provide a time delay.

Again AFAIK, ALL of the lighting functions in these Leuchte-commands are energized/deactivated immediately whenever the driver operates a particular physical switch, or a light sensor operates. The pace-car effect which you mentioned earlier is simply the "opposite" of the traditional turn-signal command (i.e. the opposite of the leuchte command Blinken links/rechts Hellphase is Blinken links/rechts Dunkelphase), but there is still no time delay in this lighting effect.

Now, I certainly don't claim to be an expert on Leuchte-programming, but it's interesting to note that VW itself didn't use Leuchte-programming to implement dynamic turn-signal on the FL Golf (i.e. mk7.5). As I have said before - the dynamic turn signal function on mk7.5 was implemented by VW as a hardware solution (not through Leuchte-commands). This kind-of confirms my hypothesis (IMO) that time-delay lighting effects are too sophisticated for the current version of Leuchte-programming. Perhaps this will change in the future with subsequent releases of Leuchte commands - although I doubt it given that the newer Golf vehicles appear to be using additional control modules for lighting (rather than using more functionality within the BCM) ?

Don
 
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witchcraftz

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Alright, I had though that somewhere in VCDS coding for the Leutche there was a delay timer, without it, none of these ideas can work. :cry:

The only thing that makes sense to me is to get extension harnesses for the outer tail lights and to install a timer module on each with a short delay and have all 4 taillight light up at the same time.
Something like this should work: https://worldofarduino.com/product/...tment-potentiometer-turn-onoff-switch-module/
 
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DV52

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^^^ witchcrafz: Now you are talk'n my language - use hardware instead!! :thanks: I suspect that experimentation will be the key to success with this project.

Just a further point - I have found in the past that trying to trigger electronic relays from a lamp wire on a mk7 can be problematic. Depending on the sensitivity of the input circuits, electronic relays can get confused by the PWM signal which is superimposed on the lamp voltage. If you have set the Lasttyp leuchte-channel for the 4 x lamps to an incandescent value (which is the correct setting), then expect the PWM frequency to be about 100 Hz (i.e. 10 millisec). You may need to filter-out this frequency if the electronic relay gets cranky!

Don
 
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witchcraftz

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Hi Don, you're the man! I unfortunately only understood about 70% of what you said though, I'm not an electrical guy and I'm missing key information I think. :)

Looking here at the stock wiring part of these diagrams, there are 3 wires for the outer tails, I assume wire 1 is power and 2 is ground and 4 is some sort of control for activating either the square and/or L lights? (1 bulb for both right?)






Looking at this diagram of the timer there seems to need to be a trigger to start the delay?



Then inside the taillights there is a control module controlled by wire 4? I wouldn't put the delay timer on that wire, just on the power/ground wires, is that a problem?


How would all this come together? :banghead:
 
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DV52

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Hi Don, you're the man!

How would all this come together? :banghead:
Witchraftz:No- your de man!!

"How would all this come together?" - answer: with aplomb, elegance and most importantly for anything that you design from scratch, with razor sharp efficiency!

Seriously though, I'm not sure that I can provide much more in the way of help. My problem is that way down here in the very deep south, the cars that VW sell are what's known as RoW models which have been tailored to comply with our local car-lighting regulations. Whereas up there in the land of the almost free, I assume that you guys have something similar to the Department of Transport (DoT) regulations for your car- lighting rules. This means that the operation and the wiring of the mk7 tail lights between our two countries is different . And this means that I don't have the luxury of access to a NAR vehicle on which to experiment - which is vital for a project of this type IMO.

However, in answer to some of your questions, here is a table that I produced some time ago showing the pin-out for the tail lights on a mk7. I can't remember where I got the NAR information, but I hope that it's correct!


So, notice that your wiring drawing has terms such as "A71, "C6" etc. - these refer to the pin designations on the BCM (@ address hex09) - it is this module that drives each of the 35 x exterior lights on a mk7. The BCM has 3 x separate wiring looms that are connected to sockets called A, B and C as per the picture below.



The useful aspect of this explanation for your project (I hope) is that the nomenclature that VW uses for their Leuchte-sets enforces a reference to the pin designation in the name. For example, the first entry in my table and the first wire in your drawing, both refer to pin A71 on the BCM. This means that the Leuchte-set that controls pin1 on the left-side outer tail-light fitting is Leuchte20BR LA71 - notice that this Leuchte-set contains the term "A71" in its name. So if, or more precisely, when you need to change the behavior of this wire in your project - simply make the changes to the A71 Leuchte-set!!

My hunch is that you will need to isolate one of the existing wires away from the tail-light fitting as the trigger for the delayed turn-signal. This will mean that you will need to cross wire the lamp that used this now-absent wire from the other side of the vehicle (this is common practice in the wiring harnesses that are sold by third party businesses).

As I have already said, experimentation will be the key to success -but it sounds like a fun project!! :D.


Don
 
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witchcraftz

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Hi Don,

Thanks for the information. Just some final questions which hopefully you can answer based on past experience of the electrical systems of these kind of cars :) :

1- do the wires 1 and 2 have continuous power or does the power get turned on by the BCM when the turn signal is pressed?
2 - can you explain what you were meaning in the earlier post when you mentioned "frequencies"?
 
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1- do the wires 1 and 2 have continuous power or does the power get turned on by the BCM when the turn signal is pressed?
First, I must preface my reply with a caveat - I have absolutely no "direct" knowledge from VW regarding how the lighting on a mk7 operates. My entire understanding of this matter is observational - so my diatribe is conjecture only and hopefully (and gladly) subject to correction by far more experienced forum colleagues here.

That said, I suggest that it's probably prudent to suspend any notion of the traditional method of how lighting operates: the idea of the standard arrangement whereby a wire is connected to the battery via an individual in-line fuse and then connected to a lamp through a switch of some type (and finally earthed) does not apply on a mk7. Instead, the boffins @ VW have interposed the BCM into the circuitry which means that ALL decisions about the light functions is controlled generally by the module @ address hex09 and in particular, by the programming of the Leuchte-set for the pin to which the lamp is connected.

VW's decision to use the BCM in this manner has had fundamental design implications: for example, the switch ON/OFF mechanisms for the lamps are now entirely decoupled from each light wire and instead they have become "inputs" to the BCM (i.e. rather than there being a physical connection between these switches/sensors and the light, the connection is made through software in the BCM).

Also, and in general, there are no in-line fuses for each lamp - instead the BCM has taken-over the role of monitoring, protecting and recording errors for each lamp. The BCM, itself is separately fused and the power circuits in some fittings (like the headlights) are also fused.

So, with this "guess" as background, the answer to your question lies in an examination of the Leuchte-set for "wires 1 and 2" which is Leuchte20BR LA71. I've included below the standard factory settings for this Leuchte-set from a NAR model mk7 in my database (I'm fairly confident that these settings apply to your car):



To help in responding to your question, I've also included an explanation of the meaning for each "active" Leuchte-command and I've tried to highlight the general structure of the Leuchte-set

Notice that aside from the "set-up" channels, a standard Leuchte-set allows 4 x "Leuchte Banks" and for each bank, it's possible to program 2 x light functions (hence 8 x light functions are allowable). For the tail fitting on your car, VW have factory set "wires 1 and 2" to operate 3 x actual light functions (i.e. Brake, Turn-signal and Parking lights - I think that you guys call this "position light"). The function that I have labelled "decouple turn-signal" is a software necessity which is required because of the enforced priority protocols between successive Leuchte-banks (it doesn't manifest as an actual lighting function in reality).

Hopefully this explains that the latter suggestion in your question is correct: for wire 1 and 2, whenever the BCM sees that the "input" switches/sensors have the correct ON/OFF conditions for any of the 3 x lighting functions above, the BCM will apply/remove a PWM power signal to the "output" pin for the outer lamp on the left-side outer tail fitting.



2 - can you explain what you were meaning in the earlier post when you mentioned "frequencies"?
Another excellent question !!

So- as we will both agree, the BCM on these vehicles is a very sophisticated device in that it is compatible with incandescent and LED lamps, and it can individually tailor the profile of the power signal to the lights to the type of activity that is programmed into the Leuchte-set (IMO, it's very impressive indeed!). For a number of very good engineering reasons, controlling the dimming level of the car's lamps is efficiently controlled by the BCM using Pulse Width Modulation (PWM) principles. PWM is simply a mechanism whereby the BCM electronically switches the power to a lamp from the battery ON/OFF quickly. As a result of this electronic switching, the power supply waveform that the lamp sees looks like a "square wave": the resulting wave form has full battery volts when the electronic switch is ON and zero volts when the electronic switch is OFF. The degree of dimming that PWM permits is simply determined by the relative ratio of the ON and OFF times (it's called the "duty cycle" of the waveform) - so, lots of OFF time results in lots of dimming and vice-a-versa. Changing this ratio can be easily done by varying the setting for the "Dimmwert" leuchte-command.

A PWM waveform always has a repeating "cadence" that is the sum of the ON time and the OFF time - this time base repeats constantly whenever the waveform operates and it is a fixed value regardless of the duty cycle that is chosen. The mathematical inverse of this cumulative ON and OFF time is the PWM frequency. Perhaps a better way of understanding this is by viewing an actual PWM waveform from the BCM - see below:



Hopefully the concepts that I explain above are obvious in the picture: notice the "square-ish wave" - the duty-cycle of the waveform is about 60% (3 x grid segments for ON time and 2 x grid segment for OFF time). And the ON time plus OFF time = 5 millisec, so the PWM frequency is 200 Hz (i.e. 1/0.005 secs). The Lasttype setting that I used when I took the picture was for an LED lamp. The picture was produced some time ago, but my recollection is that whenever an incandescent setting is applied to the Lasttyp adaptation channel, the PWM time-base generally doubles, hence the PWM frequency halves (i.e for incandescent lamps the PWM frequency is generally, but not always, 100 Hz)

herein endeth the lesson!:thanks:

Don
 
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witchcraftz

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Don, Are you an electrical teacher? Your explanations are so complete! :)

Basically from your explanations I'm getting the gist that actually altering or delaying the signal over that wire may be a lot more complex than I thought.
I may end up interfering with the BCM frequency since the timer circuit may not be able to handle such quick pulses.
 
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DV52

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^^^^What me a teacher? Definitely not, but I know lots of teachers. A thoroughly nice bunch that I call "the third sex". It's not meant to be a pejorative term, but they invariably tend to think differently to everyone else about all sorts of stuff ( a bit like all the physicists I know)!! ;)

As for your concern about "interfering with the BCM", a simple time delay ciruit (shunt capacitor and series resistor) in the relay trigger input is all that's needed to avoid the PWM frequency (if needed at all). With an appropriate choice of component values, the time constant of the circuit will smooth-out the the rise/fall of the waveform. Anther suggestion that you might try is to set the Dimmwert adaptation channel to 100. This should make the PWM waveform close to pure DC voltage. As I said, experimentation is the key !

Don

Don
 
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