OBD1 to OBD2 adapter - 1991 Passat 16v auto what vehicle connectors to use????????

   #1  

1975 Kombi

Verified VCDS User
Verified
Joined
Apr 1, 2014
Messages
51
Reaction score
4
Location
Acton, Ontario, Canada
VCDS Serial number
C?ID=211204&TC=1
I have an engine issue with my 1991 Passat and I wish to connect the vagcom and scan for fault codes. My issue is I don't have the typical OBD1 connectors on my vehicle that the 2X2 adapter can connect to and want to know if anyone has run into this and what to do.

Typically there is one white and one black connector on the vehicle to access the fault codes and the same on the 2X2 adapter and each of these connectors has a specific shape so they can't be connected incorrectly. I have one white and two blue on my vehicle and they are all the same shape. I believe that the two blue connectors are for the auto but not sure and one connector has only one terminal filled in on the connector.



2X2 adapter normal: http://www.ross-tech.com/vag-com/2x2.html


Any help would be appreciated. Thanks
 
Last edited:
   #2  

1975 Kombi

Verified VCDS User
Verified
Joined
Apr 1, 2014
Messages
51
Reaction score
4
Location
Acton, Ontario, Canada
VCDS Serial number
C?ID=211204&TC=1
I hope I can add a black connector to the open slot beside the white. It is just power and ground and I will check the white connector to see if it has the blue wire on top and the yellow wire on the bottom. If that is true I should be good to go.

Or the black connector might be there just pushed back into the console. I'll check tomorrow and post back.
 
   #3  

Jack@European_Parts

NostraJackAss
Joined
Jan 29, 2014
Messages
20,408
Reaction score
8,732
Location
Montgomery, NY, USA
VCDS Serial number
C?ID=57337
Black....... Power/Ground
White .........RAPID DATA TRANSFER & CA OBD mandate lines for initialing 04 vs 08
Blue ........alternate for ABS & GEARBOX line and blink tester mode.....basically not used!

VAG 1551 BLINK alternate mode is in contrast to rapid data transfer & when not using an RS422 to link a VAG1767 to the VAG1551.

This was used in order to perform a cross check function of TPS or throttle switches and set CO for the DPR settings on the CISEM, further then clear the DTC as a result of unplugging the ECT to do so with the VAG1551!

Self study 1991 model change SSP 400 or PART # WSP 521-400-00

RTFB your WD and meter stuff out.......
TSB's must be checked because many cars were wired wrong and the white was running power and ground, while blue was an acting DATA line!

NostraJackAss Has Spoken!
 
Last edited:
   #4  

1975 Kombi

Verified VCDS User
Verified
Joined
Apr 1, 2014
Messages
51
Reaction score
4
Location
Acton, Ontario, Canada
VCDS Serial number
C?ID=211204&TC=1
Wow that's a lot of info. I don't think my kids Passat has ABS so blink tester mode. I will check the wiring diagrams and see what's what.

So I guess the question is can I read the codes?
 
Last edited:
   #5  

Jack@European_Parts

NostraJackAss
Joined
Jan 29, 2014
Messages
20,408
Reaction score
8,732
Location
Montgomery, NY, USA
VCDS Serial number
C?ID=57337
You might be able to.....& you might not, if the baud rate isn't set slow enough.

I just don't recall hooking VCDS up to the 16V because I come from the old boys clubs now with the blue boxes.

Wait for Uwe to confirm or Eric.......?

What seems to be the issue causing the needs for tissues?

Show me some pictures of jam sticker & under hood and if this has a MIL on dash......most likely doesn't.

https://s31.postimg.org/g0izy7ml7/CISEM.png

 
Last edited:
   #6  

Zenerdiode

Verified VCDS User
Verified
Joined
Jun 26, 2014
Messages
1,007
Reaction score
1,559
Location
Newcastle, England
VCDS Serial number
C?ID=24330
VAG 1551 BLINK alternate mode is in contrast to rapid data transfer...
Ah, fond memories of when I was a ‘slip of a lad’ and lying on my back, upside down on the driver’s seat, with my head in the footwell; LED, resistor and strap in hand, to flash out ‘Blink Codes’ from my Audi 80 Sport (Typ 89). Really chuffed when my little LED started flashing. :)

Neighbours thinking I’m weird...

What’s a VAG1767 Jack?
 
   #7  

Jack@European_Parts

NostraJackAss
Joined
Jan 29, 2014
Messages
20,408
Reaction score
8,732
Location
Montgomery, NY, USA
VCDS Serial number
C?ID=57337
What’s a VAG1767 Jack?

OP keep in mind your best case scenario for repairs with CISE & even Motronic are using the DVOM and straight up old school raw tests as described in the RTFB.......This is when techs were actually techs and understood what they were doing to a degree & the RTFB was more useful!


Now Dr. Z.......

A VAG 1767 takes the place of the VAG1367 and was a timing machine to watch RPM with engine speed sensor and added long temp sensor probe for gearbox's.
It also came with an inductive pickup directly, its own battery and card.

It looks very similar in size to the VAG1551 and units all migrated with a gas analyzer on a medical type trolley from Grundig Siemens.

The speed sensor was used directly in that hole in the plastic screw in the bell housing to ID TDC.

VAG1767 \/ minus inductive coil cable in hole, speed sensor, temp probe & timing light.


VAG 1367 \/ also there was a machine made by Siemens but it wasn't used very long I still have one.



VAG 1267 \/


VAG 1551 \/


VAG1363A GAS \/
 
Last edited:
   #8  

vwtech

Verified Coal Cracker
Verified
Joined
Mar 29, 2014
Messages
254
Reaction score
290
Location
Wilkes-Barre, PA
VCDS Serial number
C?ID=7573
I say go old school and forget the OBD 1 port unless you have to use it. Really never helped in CIS fuel system anyway.
If you have the mil light then I'd try if I couldn't get the light out.
Fuel pressures with CIS setup. System pressure then Control pressure tests.
Then ECU electrical tests back probing at ECU connector with a digital meter.
Then absolutely have no vac. leaks. Vac usually a big problem because it controls fuel delivery by lifting air flow meter plate.

This is how you diagnose CIS it's just how they did it before OBD1 and how the system was designed.
Engine light and self diagnoses was an after thought to keep the Feds happy.

Whats the problem with the car?

Good Luck
 
   #10  

Uwe

Benevolent Dictator
Staff member
Joined
Jan 29, 2014
Messages
30,023
Reaction score
21,438
Location
USA
VCDS Serial number
HC100001
If this were a US model car, in principle, I think the ECU and TCU on this car should both talk. But it wouldn't surprise me at all if models built for Canada were a bit different back then.

-Uwe-
 
   #11  

1975 Kombi

Verified VCDS User
Verified
Joined
Apr 1, 2014
Messages
51
Reaction score
4
Location
Acton, Ontario, Canada
VCDS Serial number
C?ID=211204&TC=1
I say go old school and forget the OBD 1 port unless you have to use it. Really never helped in CIS fuel system anyway.
If you have the mil light then I'd try if I couldn't get the light out.
Fuel pressures with CIS setup. System pressure then Control pressure tests.
Then ECU electrical tests back probing at ECU connector with a digital meter.
Then absolutely have no vac. leaks. Vac usually a big problem because it controls fuel delivery by lifting air flow meter plate.

This is how you diagnose CIS it's just how they did it before OBD1 and how the system was designed.
Engine light and self diagnoses was an after thought to keep the Feds happy.

Whats the problem with the car?

Good Luck
A little wonky on start up. Takes a few more turns then it should 8 out of 10 times. I feel the CSV or the temp sensor that controls the CSV may be an issue. Or possible the injectors themselves. The car has 120,000KMs on it and only 2000KMs in the last 10 years. Granny only drove it to the store and back. Sat in a garage the entire time. When we bought it, it wouldn't run but a tune up cured that. Now once it is running it runs very well. May also be vacuum leak somewhere. Going through everything now. lol
 
   #12  

Jack@European_Parts

NostraJackAss
Joined
Jan 29, 2014
Messages
20,408
Reaction score
8,732
Location
Montgomery, NY, USA
VCDS Serial number
C?ID=57337
How about cold start valve 5th injector function and status of idle stabilizer?

Sounds like FP regulator and accumulator are tired.

See VT0407 CISEM FIS
 
   #13  

vwtech

Verified Coal Cracker
Verified
Joined
Mar 29, 2014
Messages
254
Reaction score
290
Location
Wilkes-Barre, PA
VCDS Serial number
C?ID=7573
CSV = (cold start valve) ? Is that what you mean? Actually called a cold start injector.
Thermal Time switch supply's a ground to cold start injector for up to 8 seconds during cranking.
Key on cold start injector should have power at one terminal during cranking.
Thermal time switch provides the ground for up to 8 sec. depending on temperature.
You can either remove injector and actually watch it spray fuel during cold start.
Or disconnect injector and use a test light between terminals should light up during cranking for a few seconds.
This does not tell you injector is working though. Pulling injector you actually see it work which is better.
You really only get 1 shot at testing it! Once the thermal time switch heats up quickly! You won't get another shot to test it till it cools back down again.

I actually have home made cheat sheet for testing CIS fuel pressure systems in word format easy too understand if you need them. PM me your e-mail address.
This is CIS-E correct? Silver or Aluminum fuel distributor.
Or CIS? Black fuel distributor.
91 to me would be CIS-E but you are in Canada?

Good Luck and enjoy the rabbit.
 
   #14  

1975 Kombi

Verified VCDS User
Verified
Joined
Apr 1, 2014
Messages
51
Reaction score
4
Location
Acton, Ontario, Canada
VCDS Serial number
C?ID=211204&TC=1
I'm an air cooled Westfalia guy. To us it is a valve. lol Ya cold start injector.


Once it is started it is rock solid. Idle does not move at all and it runs very well. Just the odd ball wonky start. When cold it is rough for a few seconds and you need to play with the throttle and when hot it is 50 50. Sometimes it starts right up and sometimes it does not and you need to try a couple times. Today started perfect hot. Yesterday took 4 tries, 5 second each to start after driving it for a while. Cold start seems to start but falter for a few seconds and then evens out and runs well.

Injector/injectors leaking down?
Fuel pressure in supply line leaking back into tank?

 
Last edited:
   #15  

vwtech

Verified Coal Cracker
Verified
Joined
Mar 29, 2014
Messages
254
Reaction score
290
Location
Wilkes-Barre, PA
VCDS Serial number
C?ID=7573
Cheat sheet sent.

You need CIS fuel tester hook up. Residual pressure will tell you if the injectors are leaking and flooding.

Good Luck
 
   #16  

1975 Kombi

Verified VCDS User
Verified
Joined
Apr 1, 2014
Messages
51
Reaction score
4
Location
Acton, Ontario, Canada
VCDS Serial number
C?ID=211204&TC=1
Word 95. wow. I'll have to convert it to something newer. Thanks lol
 
   #17  

Jack@European_Parts

NostraJackAss
Joined
Jan 29, 2014
Messages
20,408
Reaction score
8,732
Location
Montgomery, NY, USA
VCDS Serial number
C?ID=57337
Just an FYI SLMC.....

Didn't forget you & am still waiting for WSO Wurth supply in Germany & Happy Easter!
Further!
CIS E "Moronic" does not incorporate a Thermal time bitch...... :p

ECT G62 FAIL was very common I have in stock vintage OEM!
If ignition timing base setting for distributor is not correct will result in cold start being hindered in the 9A in addition to base position TS.
Be sure TS and air idle screw are set proper with timing.

OP: You may indeed want to check the check valve at fuel pump and accumulation + for faulty regulation and or stuck open evap check valves or vacuum leaks messing with sensor plate or the actual air flow meter potentiometer base setting too.

Remove injectors and watch spray pattern is best test into glass jars to see what is happening cold, at same time gives you opportunity to check for cracked o-rings or just change them anyway because they always leaked at brass air shroud hat in intake.
 
   #18  

vwtech

Verified Coal Cracker
Verified
Joined
Mar 29, 2014
Messages
254
Reaction score
290
Location
Wilkes-Barre, PA
VCDS Serial number
C?ID=7573
Now I am a Bitch.
And so old I used word 95 to write something in 1995.

Jack I know your still waiting on the harness stuff.
You are also right cold start injector info was for CIS.
Why did you write this in post 12..... "How about cold start valve 5th injector function and status of idle stabilizer?"
I wasn't thinking right and just explained 5th injector because you mentioned it Dick!

The cheat sheet explained it right.

Differential Pressure Regulator Current

To ensure smooth running, the system supplies additional fuel to a just started engine and a cold engine, by increasing differential pressure regulator current for a short period after starting and during warm-up. The starter supply's the signal to the E.C.M., which increases differential pressure regulator current for approximately 40 seconds on a just started engine. The coolant temperature sensor supply's the information to the E.C.M. for cold running enrichment, which increases the differential pressure regulator current and decreases the current gradually as the engine warms-up.

And I am sure you'll edit this too.:p

O.P. sorry about old word version. What do you want I wrote it a long time ago at least I still got it.:facepalm:
You will need a 15K ohm resistor to simulate a cold motor. I think you can just disconnect it to do this also?
You will also need a harness to measure the amperage of the differential pressure regulator.

Good Luck
 
   #19  

Jack@European_Parts

NostraJackAss
Joined
Jan 29, 2014
Messages
20,408
Reaction score
8,732
Location
Montgomery, NY, USA
VCDS Serial number
C?ID=57337
Now I am a Bitch.
And so old I used word 95 to write something in 1995.

Jack I know your still waiting on the harness stuff.
You are also right cold start injector info was for CIS.
Why did you write this in post 12..... "How about cold start valve 5th injector function and status of idle stabilizer?"
I wasn't thinking right and just explained 5th injector because you mentioned it Dick!

The cheat sheet explained it right.

Differential Pressure Regulator Current

To ensure smooth running, the system supplies additional fuel to a just started engine and a cold engine, by increasing differential pressure regulator current for a short period after starting and during warm-up. The starter supply's the signal to the E.C.M., which increases differential pressure regulator current for approximately 40 seconds on a just started engine. The coolant temperature sensor supply's the information to the E.C.M. for cold running enrichment, which increases the differential pressure regulator current and decreases the current gradually as the engine warms-up.

And I am sure you'll edit this too.:p

O.P. sorry about old word version. What do you want I wrote it a long time ago at least I still got it.:facepalm:
You will need a 15K ohm resistor to simulate a cold motor. I think you can just disconnect it to do this also?
You will also need a harness to measure the amperage of the differential pressure regulator.

Good Luck

Thermal Time switch supply's a ground to cold start injector for up to 8 seconds during cranking.
It's all good SLMC.... :rolleyes:
My ref Thermal time bitch = "Thermal time switch" .........it doesn't exist in CISEM, nor would a warm up regulator, but you didn't mention the WUR.
Many variables can contribute to a rough cold start in CISE-"Moronic"

Just didn't want the OP looking for a switch that doesn't exist & as he is already confused!
 
   #20  

vwtech

Verified Coal Cracker
Verified
Joined
Mar 29, 2014
Messages
254
Reaction score
290
Location
Wilkes-Barre, PA
VCDS Serial number
C?ID=7573
I agree!
CIS E will confuse a lot of people.

Good Luck
 
Top