Polo 6C BiXenon Retrofit Issue

   #21  

iichel

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OK but then I don't understand this:

1. I got the fog lights back in the bumper ( from T14e/f slot 14 -- cornering ) -- they work just fine
2. Swapped the "main beam wire" from both T14 connectors slot /11 to /14 -- cornering ( so now main beam triggers the cornering lights )

You put back the original fog light wire in the fog light?
And the main beam (high beam) wire are back in T14/11? You could have taken T10/8 but I think now I understand.
 
   #22  

EduardJS

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OK but then I don't understand this:



You put back the original fog light wire in the fog light?
And the main beam (high beam) wire are back in T14/11? You could have taken T10/8 but I think now I understand.

Basically when I installed the headlights ( they have their own cornering ), and I moved the cornnering lights from the bumper, into the headlight ( didn't know they are actually fog lights, and BCM sends cornering via them ). Now, I got the foglights back to the bumper, with their original wires. So, forget about that for a second.

Back to the high beams which are the main "issue". Basically, T10/8 ( high beam ) is coming from T46b/7 and T46b/42 right ?
Then where is the cornering coming from :D ? Looking at the WDs, they are also caming from the same exact pins. That's because Xenon headlights use t46b/45 as high beam trigger, and leave t46b/7 and /42 for cornering :)

That's why I added the additional wire from /45 to t14/11 on both headlights, because that's the high beam, as per WD. Do you understand my issue ? Basically cornering on xenon and high beams on halogen, come from the same PINs, that is why I cannot have high beam adn cornering in the headlight working correctly :D

So to separate them, as per WD, you have to run t46b/45 to both headlamps, as in here (https://i.imgur.com/jsElmgJ.png) and switch functionality between the two.

1. cornering from fog lights goes to high beam slots functionality in adaptation
2. high beam from goes to t46b/45, in adaptationn channnels

I'm not sure how I can explain the issue, maybe it's best to send you a video, or explain it on skype or some chat service ?
 
   #23  

EduardJS

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Or, maybe it's better to ask youa simple question, so you can see the problem yourself. If I have the cornering functionality sent via the fog lights, and there is no physical wire for cornering, where would you wire the cornering from, into the t14 connectors ?
 
   #24  

iichel

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T14e

14 - T46b/42 - cornering light left <<<

T14f right headlight

14 - T46b/7 - cornering light left <<<<

;)
 
   #25  

EduardJS

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T14e

14 - T46b/42 - cornering light left <<<

T14f right headlight

14 - T46b/7 - cornering light left <<<<

;)

Perfect, I totally agree ( just as I have them now ), but, what about T14/11 ( for the high beam shutter, or "dipped beam screen motor" as it is called in the WD ) ?
 
   #26  

iichel

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Ah I see now. I messed up, and assumed T10/8 L/R goes to T46b/45. T46b/45 to T14/11 L/R is ok!
 
   #27  

EduardJS

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Ah I see now. I messed up, and assumed T10/8 L/R goes to T46b/45. T46b/45 to T14/11 L/R is ok!

Great! Now, without any kind of settings in the adaptation channels, I have:
- fog lights with cornering ( in bumper )
- high beam on cornering lights ( in headlights )
- DRL ( properly connected with parking lights and former DRL from bumper ) but, not working ( Guess adaptation changes are needed ? Or should it work by default ). These all work, so it means all the cables are fine.

Right! So, now, let's do some changes to the adaptation channels as follows:

Code:
1. Leuchte12NL LB40-Light_Function_B_12 - "Abbiegelicht links" ---> "not active"
2. Leuchte13NL RB3-Light_Function_B_13 - "Abbiegelicht rechts" ---> "not active"
// now fog lights should only be just that, fog lights.

3. Leuchte8FL LB42-Light_Function_A_8 - "Left High Beam" ---> "Abbiegelicht links"
----------------------------- Function_B_8 - "Headlamp flasher" ---> "not active"

4. Leuchte9FL RB7-Light_Function_A_9 - "Right High Beam" ---> "Abbiegelicht rechts"
----------------------------- Function_B_9 - "Headlamp flasher" ---> "not active"

// now, cornering in the headlights should work just fine, as it was routed from "fog lights" to the former "high beam" slots

5. Leuchte10SHUTTER LRB45-Light_Function_A_10 - "not active" ---> "Left High beam" (can't choose left AND right high beam since this is one channel for both headlights) -- is there an option to choose both high beams ?
6. Leuchte10SHUTTER LRB45-Light_Function_B_10 - "not active" ---> "Headlamp flasher"
// now, flashing should be done via T46B/45 which is wired to T14/11, therefore, shutter ( high beams should work )

Either way, after doing all these changes, it works exactly like before doing them .. I feel like my own car is ignoring me :D Can't figure out why the changes don't take place ...

========= Later edit
Code:
// dipped beam screen motor ( shutter )
Leuchte10SHUTTER LRB45
-- Fehlerort_mittleres_Byte_DTC-DFCC_10 == 00
-- Lampendefektbit_Position_10 == 00
-- Type_Of_Load_10 == allgemeinneScheinweferohneAbschaltung


// main beam wires
Leuchte9FL RB7
-- Fehlerort_mittleres_Byte_DTC-DFCC_9 == 1D
-- Lampendefektbit_Position_9 == 41
-- Type_Of_Load_9 == allgemeinneScheinweferohneAbschaltung

Leuchte9FL LB42
-- Fehlerort_mittleres_Byte_DTC-DFCC_8 == 1C
-- Lampendefektbit_Position_8 == 37
-- Type_Of_Load_8 == allgemeinneScheinweferohneAbschaltung


// fog lights
Leuchte12NL LB40
-- Fehlerort_mittleres_Byte_DTC-DFCC_12 == 22
-- Lampendefektbit_Position_12 == 38
-- Type_Of_Load_12 == allgemeinne Scheinwefer

Leuchte13NL RB3
-- Fehlerort_mittleres_Byte_DTC-DFCC_13 == 23
-- Lampendefektbit_Position_13 == 42
-- Type_Of_Load_13 == allgemeinne Scheinwefer

These are some differences to notice between the adaptation channnels of Leuchte10SHUTTER-LRB45 ( which was inactive from factory ) and the other light settings, which are active.
 
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   #28  

EduardJS

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Got an idea to work around the fog-cornering issue. I'm going to cut the front fog wire from the light switch so I can route the wire/bulbs from bumper to T14/14 (cornering). This way they will only act as cornering light :rolleyes:

Then I'll run the cut wire from the light switch through a 15A fuse to the fog light bulbs and voila :o

Only thing left now is the DRL ... which doesn't work out of the box. Any idea if it should, just by connecting the current DRL ( from bumper to T14/10 ) and Side ( Parking ) Lights ( to T14/12 ) ? Or are there usually adaptation maps that need changed as well ?
 
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   #29  

DV52

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Eduard: I'm reading you communiques with iichel like the revealing chapters of an exciting book. But I must admit that I've lost the plot entirely - your novel has more twists and turns than a pretzel (but I do admire your sheer tenacity)!:confused:

I'm just a bog-amateur, but I can't help but think that a copy of an admap from your BCM would be a useful contextual contribution to your evolving story - for those of us that participate in your tale vicariously! :popcorn:

Don
 
   #30  

EduardJS

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Eduard: I'm reading you communiques with iichel like the revealing chapters of an exciting book. But I must admit that I've lost the plot entirely - your novel has more twists and turns than a pretzel (but I do admire your sheer tenacity)!:confused:

I'm just a bog-amateur, but I can't help but think that a copy of an admap from your BCM would be a useful contextual contribution to your evolving story - for those of us that participate in your tale vicariously! :popcorn:

Don

Hey DV25! It will take a bit of time, as I have to get them all manually, getting the admap out gets me an error.. trying to get that VW dealer to upgrade my BCM sooner or later, otherwise I’ll just have to replace it. What would be best for you ? All the entries from Leuchte-Set ?
 
   #31  

DV52

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Hey DV25! It will take a bit of time, as I have to get them all manually, getting the admap out gets me an error.. trying to get that VW dealer to upgrade my BCM sooner or later, otherwise I’ll just have to replace it. What would be best for you ? All the entries from Leuchte-Set ?

Eduard: I have the same philosophy regarding admaps as I do about autscans - posting a partial copy of either is simply not helpful (no offense intended)!!

So with ignition switched-on and engine switched-off do the following:


The other thing that would be helpful is a simple list of which pins on the BCM are now connected to which lamps. For example Pin XX on Socket Y connected to Fog light?

My understanding of the Polo 6C is that the standard Leuchte-sets are allocated as below. But if you have cross-wired any of the lamps, then the Leuchte-set assignments will be different on your car.

Leuchte13NL RB3 > Fog lamp / turning lights, front right (optional)
Leuchten14LOCKUNLOCKC61 > Button door lock inside (?)
Leuchte15 SAFE LED C55 > Red central locking LED (?)
Leuchte16BLK SLC11 > LED Mirror left turn signal, LED
Leuchte17 BLK SR A72 > LED Right turn signal mirrors, LED
Leuchte18BLK HLA71 > Indicator rear left (rear lights)
Leuchte19BLK HRC10 > Indicator rear right (tail lights)
Leuchte20BR LA70 > Brake light, rear left (rear lights)
Leuchte21BR RC8 > Brake light, rear right (tail lights)
Leuchte22BR MC9 > Brake light, rear center (third stop light)
Leuchte23SL HLC7 > Parking light, rear left (rear lights)
Leuchte24SL HRA69 > Parking light, rear left (rear lights)
Leuchte25KZL HA6 > License plate light
Leuchte26NSL A65 > Rear fog lights (rear lights)
Leuchte27 KL58XS C67 > Interior Lighting Dimmer (?)
Leuchte28RFL C3 > Reversing light (tail light)
Leuchte29 KL30G A69 > Terminal 30G (?)
Leuchte30 INNENLICHT A68 > Indoor lighting (?)
Leuchte31AMBL 1C65 > not used, ambient lighting
Leuchte32AMBL 2C64 > not used, ambient lighting
Leuchte33AMBL 3C72 > not used, ambient lighting
Leuchte34AMBL 4C71 > not used, ambient lighting



Don
 
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   #32  

Uwe

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So with ignition switched-on and engine switched-off do the following:
Trouble is he's got a confused BCM that refuses to send a software part number and VCDS is thus refusing to map it.

-uwe-
 
   #33  

DV52

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Trouble is he's got a confused BCM that refuses to send a software part number and VCDS is thus refusing to map it.

-uwe-

Uwe:Thanks - hmm....... yes , but Eduard is able to see/modify the Leuchte-channels in said confused BCM (see earlier posts)!! So doesn't this mean (imply?) that there is a level of detente between the module and the VCDS dongle (or, at least a willingness for dialogue of some sort)?

Don
 
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Uwe

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Uwe:Thanks - hmm....... yes , but Eduard is able to see/modify the Leuchte-channels in said confused BCM (see earlier posts)!! So doesn't this mean (imply?) that there is a level of detente between the module and the VCDS dongle (or, at least a willingness for dialogue of some sort)?
Don
It would seem that there's something in the mapping function that requires a software part number, without which VCDS refuses to generate a map, probably because the filename it writes the map to is based on that part number.

-Uwe-
 
   #35  

DV52

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Eduard: Thanks for the PM - I thought that I would respond here because (as I have said), I'm not that familiar with the Polo 6C and hopefully, my response on this public thread might prompt more informative comments from our colleagues. Incidentally, I don't believe that me sending you an Admap from a Golf Mk7 would help.

Anyhow, I've kind-of put together bits of info from a number of places regarding your DRL question (these are my guesses).

In iichel's previous post, which is most interesting- she has confirmed that the pin-out connections on the BCM for a Polo 6C are:

10 - DRL in bumper positive (T46b/43)
10 - DRL in bumper positive (T46b/6)

This means that the Leuchte-sets on your car that control the DRLs must reference the B connector and Pin#43 (for the left-side DRL) and pin#6 (for the right-side DRL)

From a forum colleague (whose name I failed to record) I found a Polo 6C admap in my database - I've lifted the following STOCK settings for the LB43 and RB6 Leuchte-sets (see below):

Note: the Polo 6C admap that I had in my database was taken with an earlier version of RT - before the current "identifiers".

Left side DRL
(1)-Leuchte4TFL LB43-Type_Of_Load_4 > allgemeineGluehlampe27W;auchH15-TFL
(2)-Leuchte4TFL LB43-Lampendefektbit_Position_4 > 3A
(3)-Leuchte4TFL LB43-Fehlerort_mittleres_Byte_DTC-DFCC_4 > 20
(4)-Leuchte4TFL LB43-Light_Function_A_4 > Daytime running lights
(5)-Leuchte4TFL LB43-Light_Function_B_4 > not active
(6)-Leuchte4TFL LB43-Dimming_AB_4 > 100
(7)-Leuchte4TFL LB43-Light_Control_HD_AB_4 > Always
(8)-Leuchte4TFL LB43-Light_Function_C_4 > not active
(9)-Leuchte4TFL LB43-Light_Function_D_4 > not active
(10)-Leuchte4TFL LB43-Dimming_CD_4 > 0
(11)-Leuchte4TFL LB43-Dimming_Direction_CD_4 > maximize
(12)-Leuchte4TFL LB43-Light_Function_E_4 > not active
(13)-Leuchte4TFL LB43-Light_Function_F_4 > not active
(14)-Leuchte4TFL LB43-Dimming_EF_4 > 0
(15)-Leuchte4TFL LB43-Dimming_Direction_EF_4 > maximize
(16)-Leuchte4TFL LB43-Light_Function_G_4 > not active
(17)-Leuchte4TFL LB43-Light_Function_H_4 > not active
(18)-Leuchte4TFL LB43-Dimming_GH_4 > 0
(19)-Leuchte4TFL LB43-Dimming_Direction_GH_4 > maximize

Right-side DRL
(1)-Leuchte5 TFL RB6-Type_Of_Load_5 > allgemeineGluehlampe27W;auchH15-TFL
(2)-Leuchte5 TFL RB6-Lampendefektbit_Position_5 > 44
(3)-Leuchte5 TFL RB6-Fehlerort_mittleres_Byte_DTC-DFCC_5 > 21
(4)-Leuchte5 TFL RB6-Light_Function_A_5 > Daytime running lights
(5)-Leuchte5 TFL RB6-Light_Function_B_5 > not active
(6)-Leuchte5 TFL RB6-Dimming_AB_5 > 100
(7)-Leuchte5 TFL RB6-Light_Control_HD_AB_5 > Always
(8)-Leuchte5 TFL RB6-Light_Function_C_5 > not active
(9)-Leuchte5 TFL RB6-Light_Function_D_5 > not active
(10)-Leuchte5 TFL RB6-Dimming_CD_5 > 0
(11)-Leuchte5 TFL RB6-Dimming_Direction_CD_5 > maximize
(12)-Leuchte5 TFL RB6-Light_Function_E_5 > not active
(13)-Leuchte5 TFL RB6-Light_Function_F_5 > not active
(14)-Leuchte5 TFL RB6-Dimming_EF_5 > 0
(15)-Leuchte5 TFL RB6-Dimming_Direction_EF_5 > maximize
(16)-Leuchte5 TFL RB6-Light_Function_G_5 > not active
(17)-Leuchte5 TFL RB6-Light_Function_H_5 > not active

So, first thing to do (I suggest) is to confirm that your car has the settings indicated in my table. If your car is similarly set-up, then you can see that the construction of the Leuchte-sets is fairly rudimentary in that there is only one lighting function. That is, only the Alpha A channel is populated with a leuchte command - which fortuitously is the DRL command (which confirms that these are the correct Leuchte-sets).

So, now for the techo bit and I apologize in advance if I'm teaching you to suck eggs. The channel in the Leuchte-set that tells the BCM what sort of lamp is installed in the headlight fitting is the Type_Of_Load adaptation channel (on a mk7, this channel is reported as "Lasttyp"). Notice that on this car, the setting for this channel is for an incandescent lamp (i.e. allgemeineGluehlampe27W;auchH15-TFL).

What you might consider is changing this setting to a descriptor that is evocative of both an LED lamp and if possible, a DRL function (Tagfahrlicht, or TFL in German). On a Golf mk7, there are 2 x options as follows

1 - LED Tagfahrlichtmodul Versorgung
4 LED Tagfahrlichtmodul Signal

but this might be different on a Polo 6C

Don
 
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   #36  

EduardJS

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Hei DV25! I surely will try getting these stock settings back ( if by any chance they're not ). What I'm also thinking is that given we use two wires for the LED in the headlights, as follows:

1. DRL ( 6 / 43 ) goes into T14/10
2. Side / Parking lights into T14/12 ( also noted PWM in WD for T14 )

There may be a chance of some wrong "load_type" value for that as well ? ( which would be LB22 and RB36, if you could provide some basic values for those as well ). I know for certain the side lights ( halogen headlight ) use a W5W bulb ( so i guess it's a 5W halogen ) which would imply there are some new values needed for the "load_type" .. ?

This is how the T46B slots are described:
/6 -- Right LED module for daytime running light and side light -L177-
/43 -- Left LED module for daytime running light and side light -L176-
/22 -- Left side light bulb -M1- , terminal 58l
/36 -- Right side light bulb -M3- , terminal 58r

Now, here's the WD for the LED module for DRL and side lights: https://i.imgur.com/cncelZl.png ( would someone care to explain how that module ( L177 ) should work ? Tried googling some electrical wiring symbols but ... couldn't really find similarities hehe. Think that if I know how it works, I could manage to test if the LEDs actually work ? There's also the possibility of them being faulty .. so there's that .. just finding it hard to believe it could be faulty on both headlights.

Will give the channels a look tomorrow and note all the values down. Be back :)
 
   #37  

downtime

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To me it looks like a PNP transistor which is working as an amplifier or led driver for the elements.
 
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DV52

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downtime: the PNP transistor is a universal symbol used in the WD to indicate that there is an active electronic device (of any sort) present. This same symbol is used to indicate a control module, as well - the PNP symbol is ubiquitous throughout the WD. The fact that pin 12 on the headlight connector says "PWM" (i.e. Pulse Width Modulation) probably means that there is some type of signal conditioning device for the DRLs.

Now, the normal output from the BCM pin from Leuchte commands is already PWM (using digital control when a LED setting is applied to the "Type of Load" channel) - see below. So I assume that the electronic circuit in the fitting is some sort of current enhancement device for the LEDs (given that LEDs are current devices).

Don

FL0dav9.jpg
 
   #39  

downtime

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Ok, thank you for the explanation. My assumption is also that it is some sort of "driver" for the leds but you explained it in a manner that anyone understands :)
 
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EduardJS

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Hello gents! Thanks for the generous info and explanations.

There's good news, and bad news, so here it goes:

Good news:
1. I can confirm I have the same exact adaptation channel values regarding DRL, as mentioned above ( thanks DV52 ).
2. I can also confirm the two Load_Type values, LED Tagfahrlichtmodul Versorgung and LED Tagfahrlichtmodul Signal exist as well in this BCM.

Then, I went on and changed the following:
VRB36 ( parking left ) - Load_Type: allemeineGluehlampe6W:auchH6W to LED Tagfahrlichtmodul Signal
VLB22 ( parking right ) - Load_Type: allemeineGluehlampe6W:auchH6W to LED Tagfahrlichtmodul Signal
RB6 ( LED module right ) - Load_Type: allgemeineGluehlampe27W;auchH15-TFL to LED Tagfahrlichtmodul Versorgung
LB43 ( LED module left ) - Load_Type: allgemeineGluehlampe27W;auchH15-TFL to LED Tagfahrlichtmodul Versorgung

Bad news:
I still cannot get the LEDs to stay open ... when switching to side lights ( in the light switch ), they stay open for a very short time, like an instant blink, and that's it, they go out. At least this rules out the faulty headlights.
Please check the following video to see what I'm talking about.


Since the side lights are marked as PWM in the WD, I thought of using "TFL Signal" as load type, and keep "Versorgung" for the LED module .. same thing happens if I swap them and use Side lights load type as versorgung and drl with TFL Signal.

Where to go from here... as now I know they are not faulty, power goes through, but still, they dont stay open ... I feel like it’s no option left :(
 
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