Case Study: A5 / S5 Audi Cabriolet top issue B11A0

   #1  

Jef

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Suggest you folks get the Audi training guide:

The 2010 Audi A5 Cabriolet
Self-Study Program 960193

Address 26: Auto Roof (J256) Labels:| 8F0-959-255.clb
Part No SW: 8F0 959 255 HW: 8F0 959 255
Component: VSG-AUDI-B8 H09 0170
Coding: 030000
Shop #: WSC 02145 785 00200
ASAM Dataset: EV_ElectRoofContr 001007
ROD: EV_ElectRoofContr.rod
VCID: 71E3D33AA01827CE75-8024

1 Fault Found:
0004 - Switch for Convertible Top
B11A0 02 [137] - Signal Failure

The cabrio top does not seal up the back end correctly. The curved hoop below the rear window is the "Tension", there small gap between it and the convertible top box lid.

The Auto Roof (J256) has to see the Convertible Top Closed Position Switch (F202) is "operated" before it will hydrolic cylinders that push the tension down firmly onto the convertible top box lid. The F202 data will be found in Advance Measuring Values:

IDE02664-MAS02264,Switch for folding top-Convertible top front closed position switch

The F202 is located on the right side of the frame, maybe 24"-ish from the front edge. It is on a plastic mount that is secured to the frame. The plastic mount can bend/flex so that the F202 is out of alignment and doesn't get "operated" when the leading edge of the top is flat. You may be able to grab the frame in the area of the F202 and push/pull on the top that the switch becomes "operated" and then a helper and flip the power roof switch to close and the rear tension will gets pushed down as it should.

The fix for this may be as simple as using epoxy to help glue the plastic mount that the F202 is on flush with the frame so it can no longer flex out.

ST?ID=77145

Base line readings for top open or closed found here:
http://forums.ross-tech.com/showthread.php?7674-2017-S5-Cabrio-(CTUB-engine)


EDIT July 28, 2020 (that crappy year) - ST?ID=94503
Same B11A0 code. Top is closed up, however the issue seem to be with IDE02664-MAS02263, Switch for folding top - Convertible top open position switch (F171) which should be "not activated" but it keeps flickering over to "operated". Just wanted to drop a quick note since normally the F202 is the cause of the B11A0 fault code, but now we have a documented case of an issue with the F171 causing it. Hope to get feedback from the tech as to why the F171 is glitching.

Feedback... water leak and F171 is at a low point... so a bit "crusty":

jRDSLxD.png
 
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Jef

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The F202 location, on the right side of the frame.

jiWfIn6.jpg
 
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Keithuk

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I've had SSP 960193 The 2010 Audi A5 Cabriolet, 90 page PDF for a few years. You can Google this but you have to join an Audi forum or pay Erwin. I've anyone wants my copy PM me with your email address?
 
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JimGrisham

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Recently had (and finally resolved) this issue myself.

In Jef's photo of F202 above, you can see a metal tab just below and to the right, on a different part of the hinge. That is what F202 is detecting ... it's just a regular piece of steel, I believe. (If you monitor F202 with VCDS[SUP][1][/SUP] while the roof is half-opened as in the photo, you can see it turn on and off as you hold a screwdriver up to the face of F202.)

There are two torx screws on the interior side of that piece that allow for a significant amount of adjustment. I had to adjust mine a few times (pushing up or pulling down on the roof gently in that spot if it refused to operate). I just moved it a hair each time because I didn't want to risk breaking anything. There's a sweet spot, so when you think you've got it, cycle the roof a few times to make sure it's happy before putting away your screwdriver and laptop.

If anyone would like detailed instructions on how to manually operate the roof using the hydraulic motor and the output test of VCDS, please contact me directly and I'd be happy to explain. I've also got the sequence of all switch operations needed for normal opening and closing of the roof, with some approximate timing information.

- Jim

--
[1] Address 26 Auto-roof: G029-Loc. IDE02664-MAS02264: Switch for folding top-Convertible top front closed position switch


Audi_autoroof_F202-annotated.jpg
 
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JimGrisham

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Raw notes for posterity

I was recently contacted by another forum member looking for assistance with a 2010 series Audi A5 Cabriolet roof.

Until I get around to typing these up in a friendlier format (if I ever do), perhaps my raw troubleshooting notes from last year may be of use to others in the future. I make no promises that any of this is correct, legible, or sensible, but it did help me repair my own vehicle.

Cheers,

- Jim​


Linked PDF and CSV files:


2017_-_Notes_-_Audi_A5_top_-_sensor_sequencing.png


(Again, these were just my raw notes for my own use, so please forgive the sloppiness.)

* Note: These may change over time, as I believe my logs from several years ago (after the first module firmware updated that switched to UDS mode) had different numbers.
 
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Jef

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Well this was "fun"... was in the S5 Cabriolet watching data for top operation to verify some things for an ongoing video project... ran the top several times over the course of 15 minutes. Finally got everything I needed, go to close the top... the rear lid closed and locked but the rear tension bow didn't lower. No codes, just a message of "top can't be operated" in the cluster.

It would seem I overheated the pump and it shut down, but it doesn't flag a code for this. So just FYI, when the pump overheats:
  • No fault codes.
  • Can view live data of the switch for power top.
  • Raise windows don't lower when operating the switch for power top.
  • Very generic message in dash saying top can't be operated.
  • Top doesn't operate.
  • About 15 minutes later, top works.
  • :banghead:
 
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Jack@European_Parts

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Another stack chalked up & missing stuff due to yet again, too many Heffy's again!

A mere distraction.......
c1335b225446a1a9940ee6c285fc18ae.png
giphy-facebook_s.jpg
 
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Dana

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Sorry for bumping an old thread but I just spoke to a customer regarding that DTC and realized the main Audi A5 Cabriolet (FH) Auto Roof Wiki page wasn't linked here. I don't believe that Wiki page existed when Jef created this post.

Either way, there's a newer version of the video and an entire list of IDEs on this page: http://wiki.ross-tech.com/wiki/index.php/Audi_A5_Cabriolet_(FH)_Auto_Roof
 
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blaroche63

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Well this was "fun"... was in the S5 Cabriolet watching data for top operation to verify some things for an ongoing video project... ran the top several times over the course of 15 minutes. Finally got everything I needed, go to close the top... the rear lid closed and locked but the rear tension bow didn't lower. No codes, just a message of "top can't be operated" in the cluster.

It would seem I overheated the pump and it shut down, but it doesn't flag a code for this. So just FYI, when the pump overheats:

  • No fault codes.
  • Can view live data of the switch for power top.
  • Raise windows don't lower when operating the switch for power top.
  • Very generic message in dash saying top can't be operated.
  • Top doesn't operate.
  • About 15 minutes later, top works.
  • :banghead:
Hi Jef, how did you get to see the data for the roof operation? Which module of the VCDS did you go to? Sorry, I am new to this forum. Just bought VCDS and trying to identify which part is faulty when I get the message "Top not secure" whereas it is really tightly closed. I had some water leaks in the trunk and back seat floor and I need to find out the damage it created (in addition to plugging the leak)
 
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Jef

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Hi Jef, how did you get to see the data for the roof operation?

Address 26 - Auto Roof

If you need additional help, start a new forum post in the Car Repair Support section.
 
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blaroche63

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I've had SSP 960193 The 2010 Audi A5 Cabriolet, 90 page PDF for a few years. You can Google this but you have to join an Audi forum or pay Erwin. I've anyone wants my copy PM me with your email address?
Hi, you still have the SSP960193 and are willing to share it, I would be interested. I found the SSP440 (see below) and another version in French detailing all the components of the systems but could not find the SSP960193
SSP440 for A5 Cabriolet
 
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blaroche63

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Suggest you folks get the Audi training guide:

The 2010 Audi A5 Cabriolet
Self-Study Program 960193



The cabrio top does not seal up the back end correctly. The curved hoop below the rear window is the "Tension", there small gap between it and the convertible top box lid.

The Auto Roof (J256) has to see the Convertible Top Closed Position Switch (F202) is "operated" before it will hydrolic cylinders that push the tension down firmly onto the convertible top box lid. The F202 data will be found in Advance Measuring Values:

IDE02664-MAS02264,Switch for folding top-Convertible top front closed position switch

The F202 is located on the right side of the frame, maybe 24"-ish from the front edge. It is on a plastic mount that is secured to the frame. The plastic mount can bend/flex so that the F202 is out of alignment and doesn't get "operated" when the leading edge of the top is flat. You may be able to grab the frame in the area of the F202 and push/pull on the top that the switch becomes "operated" and then a helper and flip the power roof switch to close and the rear tension will gets pushed down as it should.

The fix for this may be as simple as using epoxy to help glue the plastic mount that the F202 is on flush with the frame so it can no longer flex out.

ST?ID=77145

Base line readings for top open or closed found here:
http://forums.ross-tech.com/showthread.php?7674-2017-S5-Cabrio-(CTUB-engine)


EDIT July 28, 2020 (that crappy year) - ST?ID=94503
Same B11A0 code. Top is closed up, however the issue seem to be with IDE02664-MAS02263, Switch for folding top - Convertible top open position switch (F171) which should be "not activated" but it keeps flickering over to "operated". Just wanted to drop a quick note since normally the F202 is the cause of the B11A0 fault code, but now we have a documented case of an issue with the F171 causing it. Hope to get feedback from the tech as to why the F171 is glitching.

Feedback... water leak and F171 is at a low point... so a bit "crusty":

jRDSLxD.png
Suggest you folks get the Audi training guide:

The 2010 Audi A5 Cabriolet
Self-Study Program 960193



The cabrio top does not seal up the back end correctly. The curved hoop below the rear window is the "Tension", there small gap between it and the convertible top box lid.

The Auto Roof (J256) has to see the Convertible Top Closed Position Switch (F202) is "operated" before it will hydrolic cylinders that push the tension down firmly onto the convertible top box lid. The F202 data will be found in Advance Measuring Values:

IDE02664-MAS02264,Switch for folding top-Convertible top front closed position switch

The F202 is located on the right side of the frame, maybe 24"-ish from the front edge. It is on a plastic mount that is secured to the frame. The plastic mount can bend/flex so that the F202 is out of alignment and doesn't get "operated" when the leading edge of the top is flat. You may be able to grab the frame in the area of the F202 and push/pull on the top that the switch becomes "operated" and then a helper and flip the power roof switch to close and the rear tension will gets pushed down as it should.

The fix for this may be as simple as using epoxy to help glue the plastic mount that the F202 is on flush with the frame so it can no longer flex out.

ST?ID=77145

Base line readings for top open or closed found here:
http://forums.ross-tech.com/showthread.php?7674-2017-S5-Cabrio-(CTUB-engine)


EDIT July 28, 2020 (that crappy year) - ST?ID=94503
Same B11A0 code. Top is closed up, however the issue seem to be with IDE02664-MAS02263, Switch for folding top - Convertible top open position switch (F171) which should be "not activated" but it keeps flickering over to "operated". Just wanted to drop a quick note since normally the F202 is the cause of the B11A0 fault code, but now we have a documented case of an issue with the F171 causing it. Hope to get feedback from the tech as to why the F171 is glitching.

Feedback... water leak and F171 is at a low point... so a bit "crusty":

jRDSLxD.png
HI Jef, How did you get access to this infamous F171? Do you need to take out the rear seat side panel on the right or taking the side of the back seat gives enough space?
 
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jiabano

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Amazing post, amazing videos! I was able to screen shot the video at the exact moment my top would stop working on my 2010 A5, and narrowed my problem down to the F171 sensor as well. (to answer question above, you must remove R/S rear panel to access it). New one sourced from tophydraulics for $50 and it works like new. Thanks for sharing this information, I don't even know how many hours it saved me in diagnostic work.

For the record, I was able to work the top by holding the sensor on the top frame once it was halfway open (or hold there until halfway closed) and then removing. This led me to believe first that it was a problem with my cylinder but I've come to learn that when the IC is failing in the sensor, it's just not quite strong enough to read the cylinder inside - but works when you hold it up to a solid metal piece like the top frame.
 
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Amazing post, amazing videos! I was able to screen shot the video at the exact moment my top would stop working on my 2010 A5, and narrowed my problem down to the F171 sensor as well. (to answer question above, you must remove R/S rear panel to access it). New one sourced from tophydraulics for $50 and it works like new. Thanks for sharing this information, I don't even know how many hours it saved me in diagnostic work.

For the record, I was able to work the top by holding the sensor on the top frame once it was halfway open (or hold there until halfway closed) and then removing. This led me to believe first that it was a problem with my cylinder but I've come to learn that when the IC is failing in the sensor, it's just not quite strong enough to read the cylinder inside - but works when you hold it up to a solid metal piece like the top frame.
So, I finally got around the hurdle of having access to the F171 after unplugging the battery and operating the roof manually. A few bolts holding the rear panels would not come and I could not completely remove the interior trim out so I felt I practiced surgery on the car through an open wound...I swapped the faulty sensor (rusty stain on the sims of the hall sensor itself) and the roof is back in motion. Really awesome! Indeed, both VCDS and the "case study" video were super helpful. Thanks again.

BTW, I found an affordable alternative to the ERN website: alldatadiy.com and bought a one-year subscription for $26.95 with a coupon
https://www.alldatadiy.com/buy/

It was quite handy on pulling the panel and also changing the rearview camera module that was dead ...
 
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Volt

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I've had SSP 960193 The 2010 Audi A5 Cabriolet, 90 page PDF for a few years. You can Google this but you have to join an Audi forum or pay Erwin. I've anyone wants my copy PM me with your email address?
Hello M8


Im working on aa 2010 Audi S5 Convertible. you said you have a SSP 960193.

can you send it to my email. tnx.
 
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Volt

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Good Day

anybody can help me find the SSP 960193 Study Guide?


tnx much
 
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