EV Thread

   #81  

D-Dub

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When I first got my volt I was very interested in the efficiency of the default drive mode (coast + slight regen similar in feel to a typical gas vehicle coasting) versus the "L" mode which engages the much more aggressive regen/braking mode (ie 1 foot slow and go).

I say slow and go, because in the volt, even "L" mode will not come to a complete stop without the brakes.

Additionally, the volt has 'blended' brakes, in which the brakes will use regeneration of up to about 40-50 kwh before hitting the physical brake disks. When coming to a stop (using the brakes) there is a period of time between approximately 5mph or so, and full stop, where the physical brakes take over.

The first gen volt, does not have a regen paddle, but the 2nd volt and the all electric Bolt does, which similar to the paddle shifters on VW, gives quick access to regen above and beyond what is provided by the brake and/or gear mode.

Also, in the volt the transmission is 1 speed, there is no gear shifting, the 3 motivators (2 electrics motors and the gas engine) all varies their individual speeds according to the vehicle speed and driver input.

By contrast, from what I understand of the tesla, is the brakes are brakes and not tied to regeneration, only the gas (or GO) pedal controls regeneration. And I believe that tesla's can come to a full stop without hitting the brakes.

No idea whether the audi uses blended brakes with regen, or standard brakes.

Anyway, I spent the first few months alternating commutes between drive and low and could not come up with a consistently better trip in L than D.

After about a year now of driving my volt, I find that generally the best/most efficient way to drive, is to drive a normal conservative economy style, in drive mode, utilizing the brakes as necessary (which automatically will regenerate) and coasting with foot off (to slow down) or coasting with small amounts of pedal input to simulate 'neutral coasting', in order to meet the demands of traffic and stoplights etc.

Because, as nice as it is to have regen, about the best you can hope for is about 50% recovery of lost energy. It is better to not lose momentum (or minimize the loss of momentum), than have energy lost from regen and re-acceleration.

The best case is always to maintain a consistent speed as possible, coast with as little regen (and drop in speed) as is possible to navigate traffic and time stoplights to avoid unnecessary regen/braking and/or acceleration.

Whew, that got way longer than I planned.

TLDR;
It is more efficient to keep as much momentum as traffic allows, than to regen then accelerate.
 
   #82  

vreihen

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OK, "one pedal driving" makes much more sense than "one foot driving". :thumbs:

The potential downside I see here is when people become habituated to this and then jump in a car that doesn't have it -- now they're going to need radar-sensor based auto-braking to avoid rear-ending people. :eek:
Sounds like FUD marketing from an EV denier (or oil company lobbyist) to me! :p The same exact thing happens to people who exclusively drive vehicles with three pedals and are forced to drive a two-pedal car. Believe me, you can find my face print on the inside of the windshield in just about every slushbox that I've ever been forced to drive. :facepalm: Thank Mithra that I haven't had to drive one in several years now, but the last few times I actually resorted to intentional left-foot braking to include my left hoof in the driving process and keep it away from the imaginary clutch pedal.....
 
   #83  

msjulie

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It is more efficient to keep as much momentum as traffic allows, than to regen then accelerate.
Yes but this comment misses the point even if it's correct in some cases.

If you have to stop - and I've never seen a commute where there isn't way too much stopping - it's more efficient to use regen than to use brakes. That's why I really like the regen in the e-car we have because you can modulate the pedal for efficiency (sorry Uwe 1 pedal not 1 foot I guess makes more sense :) ) while at the same time avoiding using brakes which equals close-to zero brake wear.

And that's the root of my original question :) Can the A3 E-tron be made to regen vs coast ...
 
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   #85  

msjulie

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   #86  

Andy

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Great ad:


The Golf GTE has the same guts as the A3 e-Tron but fewer rings and not available NAR.
 
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D-Dub

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Yes but this comment misses the point even if it's correct in some cases.

If you have to stop - and I've never seen a commute where there isn't way too much stopping - it's more efficient to use regen than to use brakes. That's why I really like the regen in the e-car we have because you can modulate the pedal for efficiency (sorry Uwe 1 pedal not 1 foot I guess makes more sense :) ) while at the same time avoiding using brakes which equals close-to zero brake wear.

And that's the root of my original question :) Can the A3 E-tron be made to regen vs coast ...
yes good point, if you have to stop/slow, regen = better than no regen

as to your brakes, it is entirely dependent if the a3 has 'blended' brakes (that include regeneration), or standard brakes (which do not regenerate).

actually, a little google-foo resulted in finding this wall of text article; https://drivetribe.com/p/tested-201...uKz0TtWmt5DaDuvJNw?iid=KgTxmXinTIu9ZOFkT1kU5g

But anyway, two words; Regenerative Braking. All cars with an electric motor have it, but when I started driving the e-tron last week its presence wasn’t obvious - Without fiddling with buttons and settings, when lifting off the power-pedal, energy generated through deceleration is sent to the batteries. This helps to maintain the state of charge or can even increase an electric car's range. Driving the e-tron in any of the 3 modes, I could only make the needle on the efficiency dial next to the speedo dip into “Charging” when my foot was actually on the brake pedal. However, yesterday evening, I discovered that when in gear, by nudging the shift back once again, the dash display changes from “D” to “S”. In any recent automatic petrol or diesel only Audi or VW this “S" means “Sport” and gears are then held for longer improving acceleration during “enthusiastic” driving. Conversely, when in this mode in the e-tron, the biggest difference is noticed upon lifting off the throttle. The car slows down to a stop so quickly that the brake lights are programmed to appear to warn following drivers. Drivers of battery-only electric vehicles (BEVs) such as the BMW i3 will be familiar with this - By regulating the pressure on and off the throttle, the car can be driven pretty much permanently without the use of the brake pedal at all. But this has one other much more important affect - Watching the battery display on the e-tron's trip computer, allowing the car to slow down like this added mile after mile to the car's electric range. It’s not immediately obvious what this is doing to the petrol engine’s fuel economy, but putting the gearbox in this “Sport” mode and diving normally dosen’t appear to change the driving dynamics much if at all.
I would suggest, that if your display panel has a mode which shows real time electrical charge/discharge, you will see visually how much regen the brakes do (or don't do) vs how much putting the gear in "S" will apply regen.
 
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   #88  

msjulie

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There's a little animated (kinda) pic of the car on the screen (dashboard) that has green lines at the front wheels... under the car for moving with epower, in front when regen. No indication of amount. It also has a little grey engine which goes orange when the gas engine is on... someone spent some time coming up with these animations..
 
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D-Dub

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that is kind of sucky. Bad audi.

one of the awesome things about my volt is the power meter.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E1K5qmrwWD0

you can see exactly how much power you are using or generating.

It is pretty amazing to see how much difference a headwind and/or hills affect power usage, also how quickly power usage can ramp up the faster you go.
 
   #91  

NZDubNurd

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My best friend is coming to visit this weekend.

He lives a bit over 100 miles away, and has just brought a Nissan Leaf.

BUT... he's bringing his 500+ HP 5.0L V10 BMW M5 Touring...... because, "it saves time, not trees" :D
 
   #93  

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   #94  

msjulie

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Crazy IMHO.

Currently BEVs don't have the range that many people need for their daily/weekly lives (see NZDubNurd's post above), which is where range extender EVs and/or PHEVs will fill the market need.

I suppose it depends on where you are - they certainly do around these parts, and more even. Big road trips are another thing ...
 
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PetrolDave

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I suppose it depends on where you are - they certainly do around these parts, and more even. Big road trips are another thing ...
My nearest large town is 50 miles away and currently has zero EV charge points, so 100 miles round trip plus allowance for the inevitable jams and queues - so most EVs won't make the grade.

My nearest family member is over 150 miles away, so again most eve won't make the grade.

As you say it depends on where you are... which means that surely PHEVs or hybrids are the best interim solution for EVERYONE not just the lucky few who live within the range of current EVs?
 
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vreihen

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I suppose it depends on where you are - they certainly do around these parts, and more even. Big road trips are another thing ...
Here too, and we're not exactly in a booming metropolis. There's both a Nissan dealer with free charging and a restaurant with several Tesla superchargers about 8 km from my house (boy did I pick a bad week to give up imperial measurements!), and my 32 km round-trip commute is well within the range of only needing weekly charges on a current e-Golf (200 km EPA-estimated range).

As much as I would like to own an EV, the Mighty Dodge and its even mightier carbon footprint is bigger inside, has 610 foot-pounds of air conditioning, and has been paid off for 5 years now. When my *annual* fuel/maintenance expenses are less than two payments on a new car, there's no way that I could justify the purchase.....
 
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   #97  

Uwe

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As much as I would like to own an EV, the Mighty Dodge and its even mightier carbon footprint is bigger inside, has 610 foot-pounds of air conditioning, and has been paid off for 5 years now. When my *annual* fuel/maintenance expenses are less than two payments on a new car, there's no way that I could justify the purchase.....
It almost never makes economic sense to swap a paid-off vehicle that's still in good condition for one that's "more efficient".
 
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vreihen

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It almost never makes economic sense to swap a paid-off vehicle that's still in good condition for one that's "more efficient".
It's even worse when one essentially steals a vehicle during the 2008 oil crisis and housing bubble pop. The retail price right now on my 11-year-old truck with 138K miles is higher than when I bought it 9 years ago with 49K miles, so technically it owes me less than nothing and I've been driving around for free the past 9 years. The Cummins engine is an $8,000+ premium *today* on the used vehicle value, and historically those 1,200 pound midwestern lumps of commercial diesel engine goodness have not really depreciated one cent from their showroom floor option price going back to the 1990's.

I am surely getting old when I say that I now look at a vehicle as a financial investment and not entertainment. As long as I keep the truck in fresh/clean diesel fuel (so it doesn't wash a cylinder out from a stuck common rail injector, it will surely out-last me at this point. (Equally a statement of my medical condition and the truck's longevity.) As much as I'd love to be rocking a $100K+ Tesla, any vehicle that I buy from now on will be because it will appreciate in value even with use.....
 
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DV52

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As much as I would like to own an EV, the Mighty Dodge and its even mightier carbon footprint is bigger inside, has 610 foot-pounds of air conditioning, and has been paid off for 5 years now. When my *annual* fuel/maintenance expenses are less than two payments on a new car, there's no way that I could justify the purchase.....
vreihen: Do you use the "Mighty Dodge" to pull-out tree-stumps (too much torque and not enough KW) - does it have a gun rack on the back window? :facepalm:

And what is the average price of a liter of fuel in the land-of-the-free these days?

Don
 
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vreihen

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No tree stumps yet, although another Mighty Dodge did pull down a house on Top Gear USA:

https://youtu.be/8bvjge4CSVU?t=627

My Mighty Dodge used to tow my 3,500 kg enclosed race car hauler before I was put into involuntary medical retirement from competition driving. Cruise control set at 105 kph, sixth gear, didn't even break a sweat on the steepest grade climbs in the area. My drivers license runs out at 10,800 kg, but the truck is actually rated to haul more!

Gun racks are out of vogue in these parts, because the neighborhood urchin will break your windows in a parking lot to grab a gun. When I was in high school, gun racks were the most popular wood shop project.

Don't hate us for our fuel prices, but diesel is about $0.73/liter here in New Yorkistan right now. I fill the 128 liter tank once per month, and it is well under a hundred bucks.....
 
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