EV Thread

   #61  

PetrolDave

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Well, my 45 year old Beetle works out to about 1250 times - and it's still on its original tank, with full capacity available :D
Which is more than current battery technologies can offer, typically a best case of 500 cycles.
 
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D-Dub

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Which is more than current battery technologies can offer, typically a best case of 500 cycles.
Not sure where that number comes from.

That would mean we get less than 2 years of battery out of a volt, mines 2013 and still going strong, and you can refer to the volt forums to see how long the original MY are still going strong. I believe there are a handful with over a million miles now.
 
   #63  

PetrolDave

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Unless you drive long distances (300+) every day, how often do you really make those long trips?
Typically once per month to visit elderly relatives.

to consider as a society, when traveling over 300 miles (or whatever particular range you want to choose), perhaps is time to start looking at other modes of travel, such as plane/train/bus.
I don't think most parents of young children would accept that plane/train/bus would be a suitable alternative in many cases, the amount of equipment needed when taking a baby or toddler on a long trip is mind boggling (especially for us older people).

Personal transportation has shaped our society, and it's up to technologists and engineers to develop credible alternatives that don't require lifestyle changes so severe as to challenge the accepted norms.
 
   #64  

PetrolDave

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Not sure where that number comes from.
I spent the last 5 working years before I retired last year working on battery systems, and every battery manufacturer we spoke to would not guarantee a lifetime of more than 500 charge/discharge cycles.
 
   #65  

vreihen

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I spent the last 5 working years before I retired last year working on battery systems, and every battery manufacturer we spoke to would not guarantee a lifetime of more than 500 charge/discharge cycles.
When I was involved with a solar-powered race car team about 20 years ago, I met with the engineers at a local custom battery manufacturer to see what could be fabricated working within the event's arcane lead-acid battery rules. They told me that they could get 33% more energy out of each battery...at the expense of longevity. Zero warranty, and they estimated 10 charge/discharge cycles before the plates were shot. They manufactured 4 sets for that project - one for practice/testing, one for qualifying, one for the race, and a spare in case they were wrong with the lifetime math.....
 
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   #67  

vreihen

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Great for one-off projects, but not something that can be carried over to mass produced items.
No argument there. The battery packs were essentially disposable, as a tradeoff for the extra capacity under the arcane lead-acid battery rules that all competitors had to work within. Not suitable for production use, well, except for maybe in a kid's R/C toy car..... :)
 
   #68  

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https://blog.caranddriver.com/a-new-normal-how-audi-is-developing-fully-electric-vehicles/

A New Normal: How Audi Is Developing Fully Electric Vehicles
OCTOBER 16, 2017 AT 11:28 AM BY BENGT HALVORSON

Electric vehicles are unlikely to make up more than a small percentage of the new-vehicle market five years from now—even tripling last year’s EV market share in the United States would mean less than 5 percent overall. Still, EVs will have effectively graduated from the minor leagues—compliance-car conversions of gasoline vehicles made electric, like the Volkswagen e-Golf—to the majors. And that will suffice to herald a different era of vehicle development. Currently, most major automakers are at work on dedicated electric-vehicle platforms, new supply chains, and, likely, different production methods for the EVs they’ll be selling in 2022. In recent discussions and interviews with Audi executives, we asked what’s changing as they develop cars for this new era, especially considering the automaker’s stepped-up electrification plan, which now calls for battery-electric vehicles to comprise one-third of global sales volume by 2025. Development is already in the later stages for the e-tron Quattro and the e-tron Sportback, Audi’s first two fully electric models (the Sportback is pictured above in concept form for the Shanghai auto show). Both will be assembled in Brussels, Belgium, along with Audi’s own battery packs and are expected to arrive in calendar year 2019 for the United States. There’s a third core e-tron model yet to be revealed that will arrive by 2021, and others beyond that, potentially sharing elements with Volkswagen’s I.D. electric vehicles. Under a Completely Different Hood There’s a lot changing about the way the company develops vehicles as a consequence, the execs told us. Audi will move to keep the core electric powertrain components under its direct control. For instance, it will be installing its own motor design in the e-tron Quattro and Sportback. But that’s just the start. A completely new functional architecture (data bus layout) is likely. And Audi will work to bring one other core piece of electric-vehicle hardware into the fold: the inverter, which changes the battery’s DC electric current to AC current as needed by the most efficient propulsion motors.

“The [inverter] component, from a security point of view, is too important to rely on a Tier 1 supplier,” said Siegfried Pint, Audi’s technical director for powertrain development, “so we are getting more and more into inverter/power module development. How we do it for the second generation is open, to be honest; but we have to have the ability to develop inverters internally.” Like Toyota, and unlike most other automakers, Audi sees solid-state battery technology as potentially arriving within a five-year timeline. Audi R&D chief Peter Mertens underscored that the emphasis will remain on lithium-ion batteries but said the company anticipates that some solid-state battery applications could be headed to production in as little as three years. “Solid state is obviously something which in the future will change a lot,” he said, pointing to accelerated battery development happening throughout the industry. Mertens wouldn’t say what type of solid-state batteries Audi is testing.

Not having to work around big engines, transmissions, fuel tanks, and tailpipes certainly allows designers more flexibility, but Audi chief designer Marc Lichte hinted that solid-state battery technology could provide an even higher level of freedom. Such batteries could conform to design needs in ways that today’s lithium-ion packs can’t. “It’s easy to put a battery pack on an SUV; an SUV is huge anyway,” Lichte said. “In the future we would like to do a battery-electric car very low—a big challenge, and why the package of the battery is very important.”
 
   #72  

msjulie

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I came looking to see if anyone knew if you can vag-com a 2017 A3 to (re)enable the strong regen of the prior year car and found this thread

We have an full electric car and the A3; the A3's daily driving is <10 miles if my husband uses it but 36 if I do. The e-range makes it one way and I get free charging at work so super low cost driving (we have solar panels on the roof too).

Every few months the car makes a longer trip so gas engine it is.. best compromise we could find in the hybrid set because we have a VW/Audi slant. Admittedly the pure ev-range of the Audi is low but it's perfectly adequate actually. We force-drive with gas sometimes because it would go stale otherwise.

The e-car has 300mile range but doesn't have DC fast charging so plenty of longer day trips are suitable but not the cross country variety.

So - anyone know what tuning tweaks are hiding in the A3's cpu?
 
   #73  

D-Dub

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Thanks for sharing your experience with your e-a3.

As far as the adjusting the regen or tweaking the a3 cpu, I don't know if that is possible via vcds or not, these hybrid/electric cars are still so new and have a lot of different systems to them, than conventional vehicles, it will probably be some time before the electric-wise tweaks are discovered/uncovered.

There is also the high likelihood of VW/Audi putting some tight lockdowns on those new systems, to both prevent end user 'tweaking' and competitive snooping. You know, they want to cover their pocketbooks in regards to battery and electric motor wear and tear and warranty issues, especially with such a new technology.

If you have not already, one thing that could help yourself and fellow users is posting a full auto-scan and admap in the reference scans forum so that the experts can get an idea of exactly what components are visible to vcds and what some of their capabilities might be.

If you didn't read the entire thread, I have a chevy volt which from my understanding works in very similar to how your a3 functions (primarily electric, with conventional gas 'range extender' engine).

My volt also gets about 250-300 mile full range (~35 miles on electric only), but has no problem running extended trips using gas only. I can get 35-40 mpg on gas alone, without needing to charge. Like you, if I stay within the electric range I don't use any gas at all.

I would be curious to learn what your a3 gas-only mpg is (ie like using a full tank without any charging), if you know from having already taken longer trips, or if you do so in the future. Just to compare to the volt and to see how it would compare to a conventional a3.

Keep in mind the beautiful thing with our vehicles, is that we can still take those cross country trips, without fast charging, or any charging, while still reaping the benefits of full electric only capabilities within our daily drives.

Anyway, welcome to the e-club.
 
   #74  

Andy

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I don't have any personal experience with it but from perusing A3 e-tron forums and checking the published specs, the 2016 models had 4 choices for driving modes:

http://www.cleanmpg.com/community/index.php?threads/53050/

For 2017 and onward, at least for NAR, they removed the "Charge Battery" choice. From a financial standpoint, it makes no sense to burn gasoline just to charge the battery since it surely costs way more than using grid power. I could see it being useful in European city centers where anything other than zero emissions vehicles have to pay a surcharge or are forbidden completely? Anyway, I briefly poked around through some channel maps and stuff and didn't see anything to explicitly turn this back on or to alter the level of regen. I'm curious to know whether downshifting the transmission increases regen.
 
   #75  

msjulie

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Some folks in other forums seem to think downshifting does increase regen but I can't say I can tell that well or at least it's not enough to matter.

I agree about Charge Battery and I'm not so interested in that but regen-vs-brakes. We've had other e-cars (still do have 1 other) where regen is the primary braking force and it seems smart to me because 1) less brake pad wear 2) 'free' otherwise lost to heat energy.

Admittedly it takes 2-3 minutes to understand that lifting your foot all the way off the gas 'brakes' the car but that lesson also teaches you to just press less-firmly. EV makers are not all pontificating on the wonders of 1 foot driving... or if it's a Volt you get paddle shifters that really actually activate regen

Regen on lift vs coasting just seems so much smarter because you don't have to regen... but now there's no choice, power on, coast or brakes.. seems silly

thanks
 
   #76  

Uwe

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EV makers are not all pontificating on the wonders of 1 foot driving...
Not sure I understand. Don't most people drive "automatics" with just one foot?
 
   #77  

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Not sure I understand. Don't most people drive "automatics" with just one foot?
With regenerative braking, the sweet spot is mid-pedal. Push the pedal down further, you go faster. Lift the pedal up, regenerative braking kicks in...apparently hard enough where you don't need to use the actual brakes according to msjulie. Hence, one-footed driving, although real drivers know that you ain't driving until you have three pedals and left-foot trail brake through corners..... ;)
 
   #78  

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I drove a friend's first gen Chevy Volt and it was more enjoyable to drive in "L" which gave lots of regen when you let up off the accelerator. Similar to a conventional engine, there are some situations where it makes efficiency sense to freewheel and some where it makes more sense to keep a gear engaged. In my 2012 Passat TDI 6MT, I used to leave it in the very tall 6th as often as possible on the overrun since there wasn't much engine braking due to diesel nature and the gearing, but it completely shut off the injectors. Leaving a friend's house at the top of a mountain, I was able to use almost no fuel yet got the engine completely warmed up:

 
   #80  

Uwe

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OK, "one pedal driving" makes much more sense than "one foot driving". :thumbs:

The potential downside I see here is when people become habituated to this and then jump in a car that doesn't have it -- now they're going to need radar-sensor based auto-braking to avoid rear-ending people. :eek:
 
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