chain drive 2.0T driving me up the wall

[tdijetta99]

I have read the tech tip...

I bet that's exactly what happened.. the spool valve looked perfect inside but it very well could've been replaced.

As much as I'm trying to avoid pulling the cam, I think I'm going to pull the cam adjuster apart and see if the vanes or housing are damaged inside.

Definitely not covered under any warranty since it came from the auction and currently belongs to a used car dealer.

 

[DrPeter]

Just to help out a bit more here... this is a quote from the Tech Tip Jef's post above and my 'correlation check' post refers to, this is the last thing it says:

"Despite the failure found, the repair should include replacement of the camshaft adjuster bridge,intake camshaft and the spool valve adjuster. "

- Now this was taken out of context and is referring to the inspection of the components where with in the tech tip, the technician will need to:

"suspect that the screen located in the camshaft adjuster bridge has come apart and lodged itself within the camshaft adjuster spool and the intake camshaft adjuster"

This is only a quote and is NOT the entire document, as Jef above suggests, it would be advisable to obtain a copy to help put things into perspective as the tech tip intended.

ref: 01-15-08 MIL ON, DTC(s) P0011, P0016, P000A, P0341 and or P052A Stored in ECM Fault Memory

You might be able to find the tech tip document on the erWin website... Official Factory Repair Information


We are all here to help, even Mr.Jack...

drpeter

 

[DrPeter]

I have read the tech tip...

I bet that's exactly what happened.. the spool valve looked perfect inside but it very well could've been replaced.

As much as I'm trying to avoid pulling the cam, I think I'm going to pull the cam adjuster apart and see if the vanes or housing are damaged inside.

Definitely not covered under any warranty since it came from the auction and currently belongs to a used car dealer.

- Cool, did not see that post, I bought an auction, non-runner Passat with a CCTA engine and that is where the broken valve pic came from!

So I can relate, we did replace the Cam Bridge, the adjuster and all intake valves. The cylinder head was not too bad, so we cleaned it up.

My son has the vehicle and it is still running strong,


I sure it will all work out fine,

drpeter

 

[Jack@European_Parts]

I never called anyone specifically retarded for the record OP.


Yeah good point OP, the SSP could be written better with added clarity.
What it should say is that the pin is locked to allow oil psi/volume to reach the retarded target, & after the engine commences with start up & being in the most advanced position to start cold.
You should learn to understand the operations of what you are working on.
Hence why if no oil PSI is present you get a DTC as being over advanced.

NostraJackAss Has Spoken!

 

[tdijetta99]

Sorry if I interpreted your comments the wrong way. Sometimes the blunt nature of my comments on forums and in real life interactions gets interpreted as condescending when it's not meant to be that way at all..

I haven't had any of these timing systems screw up other than the chain/guide issues so digging into the control side of this one is a learning experience for sure.. 80% of my VW work is in the diesel world too. I can diagnose cam variator issues on the Ferrari V8's almost with my eyes closed but the INA system on these engines is very different from the F cars..

 

[Jack@European_Parts]

If woody only was well read, his basics would have led him to success......

 

[tdijetta99]

The issue with oil pressure testing.... there isn't a test port where the cam adjuster is. So while the oil filter may be getting good oil pressure, there could be issues on the top side of the engine.

Run the engine up to temp, let idle, go into 01-08-093.3, what is the value? Do a WOT snap, what does the 3rd field go to?

So 01-08-093.3 at operating temperature comes down to a different value every time. Seems to be about 50% of the time it comes down and idles smoothly and reads 30-36 degrees, the other half of the time it comes down and idles choppy and it reads 58-62 degrees.

Cold it's always sitting around 60 degrees. It doesn't move from there until it's at full operating temperature and held at 3500rpm for a few seconds.

Probably worth mentioning... If I shut the engine off while it is idling smoothly, it just about refuses to restart. Of I shut it down while it idles choppy it starts right back up..

 

[tdijetta99]

Pulled the oil pan this evening too.. nothing inside at all. I'm definitely not the first one to have the pan off so I can't tell for sure of there was anything in there previously

 

[Jack@European_Parts]

Yeah ...........this sounds oh so very familiar.



Sounds like the bypass valve for the oil pump or oil filter housing check valve is sticking shut forcing unregulated oil PSI causing this condition based on your description after cold shut down.

I would remove the oil pump and the oil filter tower to observe the check valves directly.

What is known as a hydrostatic lock..........

On early cars that had direct lifters which were hydraulic to cam contact, the car would not start at all cold from this same condition throwing the valve timing off considerably.
In the TSI and TFSI doesn't suffer as much but with the result you describe being roller rocker lever type.

NostraJackAss Has Spoken!

 

[tdijetta99]

Maybe I was unclear. It doesn't give any trouble when starting cold.. it's only hard to start after a hot shutdown, and only if it's idling smoothly upon shutdown.

Wouldn't oil pressure be sky high when cold if the bypass valve is stuck?

 

[Jack@European_Parts]

Maybe I was unclear. It doesn't give any trouble when starting cold.. it's only hard to start after a hot shutdown, and only if it's idling smoothly upon shutdown.

Wouldn't oil pressure be sky high when cold if the bypass valve is stuck?

Not always depends on how it is stuck............double edge sword!

 

[tdijetta99]

ok so to put an end to this (I completely forgot about this thread), the issue ended up being in the camshaft adjuster itself. I happened to be at my local machine shop and was telling him about it, and he had a complete engine with a bottom end problem and let me take basically whatever I needed. I swapped out the intake camshaft and it's as good as new again..

I pulled the cam adjuster apart ad the vanes were all scored badly (like a worn out air ratchet motor), and the hole for the locking pin was completely trashed.

Thank you everyone who had solid advice on troubleshooting..

 

[Jack@European_Parts]

Thank you for the follow up...........


Post 4 .............

http://forums.ross-tech.com/showthr...g-me-up-the-wall&p=96441&viewfull=1#post96441

 

[tdijetta99]

Yeah I had a feeling that's where the issue was but really didn't want to toss parts at it, especially expensive ones.. Unfortunately it's not really straightforward testing it since there aren't pressure test ports anywhere in the control circuit. I'm just glad it's back to the customer running properly

 

[Zenerdiode]

For being awesome in the field of awesomness; I'd love you to post some pictures of the faulty cam adjuster, please.

 

[Danners74]

Hopefully you have all the tools to set it up? There are 2 variants on the chain tensioner also. I have repair instructions...... regards Danners

 

[Jack@European_Parts]

You know that even though the OP didn't post pictures yet.......... I will almost bet that the adjusters internal failure was due to sludge from oil being contaminated by turbo coking and gasoline.

All it takes is a small particle and these engines are immediately not very happy.

 

[tdijetta99]

so I just noticed the replies now (somehow got zero alerts/emails about new replies).

Zenerdiode- I'll see if I still have the old adjuster in my scrap pile.. It might still be there.. If it is I'll take some pictures

Danners74- Maybe it was missed in my first post, but I have the tools and am aware of the different tensioners. I'm no stranger to these unfortunately

Jack- As I stated more than once, there was ZERO sludge anywhere in the engine..

 

[Jack@European_Parts]

Jack- As I stated more than once, there was ZERO sludge anywhere in the engine..

http://forums.ross-tech.com/showthr...g-me-up-the-wall&p=96533&viewfull=1#post96533

Sure that is possible if the oil was mixed with contaminated gasoline........

Just because you don't see it, doesn't mean it isn't there!

I think this guy puts the old stuff in perspective, but as technology commenced the same crap happens in all TSI & TFSI HPP pumps or from injectors sticking, further causing all kinds of issues for the sump and internal components which can't to deal with when oil becomes a "solvent"!

Carbon + engine death & destruction of all AECD's are a result.
http://forums.ross-tech.com/showthr...g-me-up-the-wall&p=96471&viewfull=1#post96471

It really is best to know how something operates.

OP did you get your update?

Address 01: Engine (CCT) Labels: 06J-906-026-CCT.clb
Part No SW: 06J 906 026 AG HW: 06J 906 026 AF
Component: MED17.5 TFSI 2,0 3319<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< 4061 or higher!

NostraJackAss Has Spoken!