Wiring to cam sensor 2014 passat 1.8t

   #21  

q76767

Verified VCDS User
Verified
Joined
Oct 13, 2022
Messages
230
Reaction score
42
Location
New Jersey, USA
VCDS Serial number
C?ID=445722

You really REALLY need to dig into the mechanics of the timing because that is bad. On paper, VW / Audi generally say +/-5 degrees from 0.0. What I have noticed is once you get past +/- 3.0 degrees, you can start having issues.... your engine is just beyond 19 degrees so... yeah, not good.
I just pulled upper timming cover and put a digital caliper gauge between the two cam marks and it's reading 123.3mm and the spec is 124-126 from what I've read. And I'm looking at the timming marks on cams and timming marks on lower timming cover and crank pulley and there all dead on and cyl 1 is tdc aswell.
 
   #22  

q76767

Verified VCDS User
Verified
Joined
Oct 13, 2022
Messages
230
Reaction score
42
Location
New Jersey, USA
VCDS Serial number
C?ID=445722
I'm thinking about it now I'm thinking it is the spool valve and the intake camshaft. I drove the car about 45 minutes I never got any oil pressure warnings. Did chains and tensioner is brand new and is only showing two rings on the tensioner when you pulled a little cover, but I noticed when I started it sounds like chain rattle. So I'm assuming that is my camshaft adjuster on the intake cam making noise vs chains because that is all new
 
  • Informative
Reactions: JMR
   #23  

dkel

Verified VCDS User
Verified
Joined
Sep 28, 2021
Messages
52
Reaction score
31
Location
Issaquah, WA, USA
VCDS Serial number
C?ID=493666
Here is a YouTube video that goes into detail on the Audi Variable timing:
Good luck!
 
Last edited by a moderator:
  • Like
Reactions: JMR
   #25  

q76767

Verified VCDS User
Verified
Joined
Oct 13, 2022
Messages
230
Reaction score
42
Location
New Jersey, USA
VCDS Serial number
C?ID=445722
   #26  

q76767

Verified VCDS User
Verified
Joined
Oct 13, 2022
Messages
230
Reaction score
42
Location
New Jersey, USA
VCDS Serial number
C?ID=445722
Here is a YouTube video that goes into detail on the Audi Variable timing:
Good luck!
I'll watch that this evening on my laptop when I'm home
 
   #27  

dkel

Verified VCDS User
Verified
Joined
Sep 28, 2021
Messages
52
Reaction score
31
Location
Issaquah, WA, USA
VCDS Serial number
C?ID=493666
I believe it would as it would allow a timing change at idle RPM but someone more experienced in these engines would know for sure. There is a pin to lock the timing of the cam when the engine is shut off so if this is not working I believe it would allow timing changes when it should be locked.
Cheers,
 
   #28  

q76767

Verified VCDS User
Verified
Joined
Oct 13, 2022
Messages
230
Reaction score
42
Location
New Jersey, USA
VCDS Serial number
C?ID=445722
I believe it would as it would allow a timing change at idle RPM but someone more experienced in these engines would know for sure. There is a pin to lock the timing of the cam when the engine is shut off so if this is not working I believe it would allow timing changes when it should be locked.
Cheers,
Makes sense because it has an extended crank time and does have rattle on startup, but chains and guides and tensioners are new. I'm going to check oil pressure and if that's up to par I'll be ordering a new cam and a spool valve
 
   #29  

q76767

Verified VCDS User
Verified
Joined
Oct 13, 2022
Messages
230
Reaction score
42
Location
New Jersey, USA
VCDS Serial number
C?ID=445722
I've confirmed my oil pressure is good. Does anybody else have any input if it could be wrong timming chain, crank gear off or intake cam and spool valve are no good?
 
   #30  

Crasher

Professional User
Professional VCDS User
Joined
Jun 12, 2015
Messages
2,344
Reaction score
2,095
Location
Nottingham, England
VCDS Serial number
C?ID=21420
What make and part number of chain did you fit?
 
   #31  

q76767

Verified VCDS User
Verified
Joined
Oct 13, 2022
Messages
230
Reaction score
42
Location
New Jersey, USA
VCDS Serial number
C?ID=445722
What make and part number of chain did you fit?
I did you use a cheaper eBay kit, I've used them in past and it has worked fine. It's a kit that says 10-15 1.8t-2.0t
 
   #34  

EuroX

Professional User
Professional VCDS User
Joined
Jun 28, 2014
Messages
3,342
Reaction score
2,369
Location
Northern NJ USA
VCDS Serial number
C?ID=208579
Engine is out of time. Retime the engine all will be good. The spec for cam phase position in a good engine should be damn near close to zero. The spec is -4 to 4 degrees max. You are at 19.1 degrees which is way out. Only other thing that may be the issue would be the timing advance solenoid and spool valve. What spec was the spool valve torqued to? The spec is 35nm and it has left handed threads, anymore and the valve will lock the cam and stop it from advancing or returning to normal position. Also is the correct oil in the engine and is the oil level correct?

Theres alot of uncertainty in this post. We don't know if the lower crank dampner gear is on 100% correct, we don't know if the crank gear behind it is sitting correctly or if it has moved as that gear just floats there on the end of the crankshaft the bolt only holds it to the crank and a small lip.

Use of Chinesium parts doesn't help this case either.
 
Last edited:
   #35  

EuroX

Professional User
Professional VCDS User
Joined
Jun 28, 2014
Messages
3,342
Reaction score
2,369
Location
Northern NJ USA
VCDS Serial number
C?ID=208579
Are those cams the type that twist where the pinion meet the shaft ? Or is the type with nut and feder where the pinion is kept in place by a nut and it has it s own tooth there to hold it , if you know what i mean... I ve seen some camshafts that have the pinion pressed into the shaft and they will twist on it s axis sometimes....
From my knowledge this was only an issues on 2009-2010 vehicles only.
 
  • Like
Reactions: JMR
   #36  

q76767

Verified VCDS User
Verified
Joined
Oct 13, 2022
Messages
230
Reaction score
42
Location
New Jersey, USA
VCDS Serial number
C?ID=445722
Engine is out of time. Retime the engine all will be good. The spec for cam phase position in a good engine should be damn near close to zero. The spec is -4 to 4 degrees max. You are at 19.1 degrees which is way out. Only other thing that may be the issue would be the timing advance solenoid and spool valve. What spec was the spool valve torqued to? The spec is 35nm and it has left handed threads, anymore and the valve will lock the cam and stop it from advancing or returning to normal position. Also is the correct oil in the engine and is the oil level correct?

Theres alot of uncertainty in this post. We don't know if the lower crank dampner gear is on 100% correct, we don't know if the crank gear behind it is sitting correctly or if it has moved as that gear just floats there on the end of the crankshaft the bolt only holds it to the crank and a small lip.

Use of Chinesium parts doesn't help this case either.
I used a digital caliper gauge to check marks on top cams and I was at 124mm with crank pulley at tdc. I can't remember what I torqued spool valve to I'll recheck it. I used European blend oil in and correct level. I'll be rechecking crank gear this week see if it slipped off the crank at all. Timming advance solenoid Is the magnet correct? Could it be the intake cam itself messing up?
 
   #37  

EuroX

Professional User
Professional VCDS User
Joined
Jun 28, 2014
Messages
3,342
Reaction score
2,369
Location
Northern NJ USA
VCDS Serial number
C?ID=208579
I used a digital caliper gauge to check marks on top cams and I was at 124mm with crank pulley at tdc. I can't remember what I torqued spool valve to I'll recheck it. I used European blend oil in and correct level. I'll be rechecking crank gear this week see if it slipped off the crank at all. Timming advance solenoid Is the magnet correct? Could it be the intake cam itself messing up?
No need to post in bold lettering. Your mentioned measurement was 123.3mm which is not within spec. Also your posted cam phase reading of 19.1 degrees is way out period no doubt about that. Timing measurement from mark to mark between cams needs to be 124-126mm on the nose not any less or anymore. The only other thing I could see being a issue would be if you had pieces of screen working their way through the oil galleys in the head eventually leading to scoring of cam journals and possible failure. This would be the only possible scenario where the intake cam would be compromised/affected. I have also seen piece of screen work their way into the spool valve and jam it up internally as well which would cause extended crank. I would check the button on the spool valve. it should be sitting mostly flush if it's collapsed or pushed out I would say the valve is jammed up or failed. In which case it will not adjust. However incorrect torque spec will cause the same thing. You can perform output test for advance solenoid see if it clicks but a visual check is a good idea as well.

I have also seen the lower gear move slightly when disassembling such an engine. Once the vibration dampner is pulled the bolt should be put through the lower crank gear immediately. The gear will move ever so slightly after just 5 minutes without a fastener in it. Even though after reassembly timing will line up on both marks, the bottom will give a false positive to being in time. I can't tell you how many fuck ups i've fixed for other shops/customers that don't have experience with these vehicles. Dampner also fits one way and is easy to mess up if you have have a feel for it.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Uwe
   #38  

q76767

Verified VCDS User
Verified
Joined
Oct 13, 2022
Messages
230
Reaction score
42
Location
New Jersey, USA
VCDS Serial number
C?ID=445722
No need to post in bold lettering. Your mentioned measurement was 123.3mm which is not within spec. Also your posted cam phase reading of 19.1 degrees is way out period no doubt about that. Timing measurement from mark to mark between cams needs to be 124-126mm on the nose not any less or anymore. The only other thing I could see being a issue would be if you had pieces of screen working their way through the oil galleys in the head eventually leading to scoring of cam journals and possible failure. This would be the only possible scenario where the intake cam would be compromised/affected. I have also seen piece of screen work their way into the spool valve and jam it up internally as well which would cause extended crank. I would check the button on the spool valve. it should be sitting mostly flush if it's collapsed or pushed out I would say the valve is jammed up or failed. In which case it will not adjust. However incorrect torque spec will cause the same thing. You can perform output test for advance solenoid see if it clicks but a visual check is a good idea as well.

I have also seen the lower gear move slightly when disassembling such an engine. Once the vibration dampner is pulled the bolt should be put through the lower crank gear immediately. The gear will move ever so slightly after just 5 minutes without a fastener in it. Even though after reassembly timing will line up on both marks, the bottom will give a false positive to being in time. I can't tell you how many fuck ups i've fixed for other shops/customers that don't have experience with these vehicles. Dampner also fits one way and is easy to mess up if you have have a feel for it.
Sorry didn't mean the bold letters just came up like that, I appreciate any help I get. The cam bridge is the the updated one without the screen on it. I do have a really extended crank time to start it. I'm going to check the spool valve tomorrow and recheck the torque spec on it. If that checks out I'll pull lower timming cover and recheck the lower crank gear. I've done timming chains on 3 other 1.8t and a 2.0t and many many belts and cam chains on the older pre 2010 2.0t.
 
   #39  

EuroX

Professional User
Professional VCDS User
Joined
Jun 28, 2014
Messages
3,342
Reaction score
2,369
Location
Northern NJ USA
VCDS Serial number
C?ID=208579
Sorry didn't mean the bold letters just came up like that, I appreciate any help I get. The cam bridge is the the updated one without the screen on it. I do have a really extended crank time to start it. I'm going to check the spool valve tomorrow and recheck the torque spec on it. If that checks out I'll pull lower timming cover and recheck the lower crank gear. I've done timming chains on 3 other 1.8t and a 2.0t and many many belts and cam chains on the older pre 2010 2.0t.
I've done thousands between the original 1.8,2.slow cross flow,1.8t, 2.8,3.0,3.2,2.0t,4.2,4.2t and 2.7t. Never a dull moment. Seen it all. Nothing else makes sensor other than something is not installed correctly or timed. I don't see any other choice or cause other than mechanical issue.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Uwe
   #40  

q76767

Verified VCDS User
Verified
Joined
Oct 13, 2022
Messages
230
Reaction score
42
Location
New Jersey, USA
VCDS Serial number
C?ID=445722
I've done thousands between the original 1.8,2.slow cross flow,1.8t, 2.8,3.0,3.2,2.0t,4.2,4.2t and 2.7t. Never a dull moment. Seen it all. Nothing else makes sensor other than something is not installed correctly or timed. I don't see any other choice or cause other than mechanical issue.
Thanks for your help I'm going to retime it this Friday and double check the cam gear is in place
 
Back
Top