Ukraine

[RGH0]

Yes depreciation and maintenance will still be bigger I think on your Discovery despite its hefty fuel use. I used to have a 4.5 L petrol 105 series Landcruiser and fuel was actually more than depreciation and maintenance but only because I did my own maintenance and it needed nothing but routine servicing even after 450k kms and it also started appreciating after 20 years.

 

[PetrolDave]

Fuel is the least of your costs in running a car for most people and is focused on because its something you pay regularly the other stuff which is paid much less frequently gets forgotten.

Typically in order of importance.

1. Finance costs if you borrow or lost investment opportunity cost if you purchase outright
2. Depreciation and maintenance cost. Depreciation declines but maintenance costs increase as a car gets older so they sort of balance themselves out unless you do the maintenance yourself to keep increasing maintenance costs down. I have not studied long term EV depreciation and maintenance costs but it will be all around battery life and replacement cost or do you just sell the car for scrap when the batteries die ?
3. Insurance and registration costs and any other costs incurred by just owning a car such as garaging costs
4. Finally fuel be it diesel / petrol or electricity and road usage charges (tolls etc)

1. Current EV prices, purchase and lease, are beyond the reach of most drivers.
2. EV battery replacement costs will be huge, maybe this is why Renault offer EV battery leasing? Scrapping an EV with perfect mechanics due to battery costs is hardly good for the environment!
3. Can't comment.
4. Have already commented.

 

[Uwe]

Fuel is the least of your costs in running a car for most people

Perhaps, but it is by far the most noticeable (and variable!) ongoing expense. E.g.: Here in the USA, diesel costs more than double what it did less than two years ago, when I got my newest vehicle. Back then, I could run it to near empty and fill the 125 liter tank with one swipe of a credit card at the pump. Those swipes typically have a $100 limit. Now, I can barely get a half a tank before the pump shuts off. So I'm now stopping for fuel every ~400 miles instead of every ~800. Can I afford the fuel anyway? Yes, I can. But it's a major pinch to someone who drives a 10+ year old used car and needs to fuel it to get to his minimum-wage job.

-Uwe-

 

[RGH0]

so how is the special military operation going now ?

The 1 week conquest of the Ukraine looks like a distant dream of Putin now after 200 days and perhaps going backward to the Russian border.. "c'est la vie" ....life is tough as a dictator, need to start making sure you're back is safe I think.

Looks like the Russians have been out thought, and out manned and increasingly out gunned but what would I know

 

[Crasher]

....life is tough as a dictator,

To me he is more of a gangster with his mob of cronies, I feel sorry for the ordinary Russian folk especially their conscript soldiers forced to fight a war they want nothing to do with.

 

[RGH0]

I am sure the Russian "regrouping" is going well.... for now

 

[Crasher]

I am sure the Russian "regrouping" is going well.... for now

I would never write them off or be complacent until Putin is dangling from a gibbet...

 

[Adam]

 

[JMR]

so how is the special military operation going now ?

The 1 week conquest of the Ukraine looks like a distant dream of Putin now after 200 days and perhaps going backward to the Russian border.. "c'est la vie" ....life is tough as a dictator, need to start making sure you're back is safe I think.

Looks like the Russians have been out thought, and out manned and increasingly out gunned but what would I know

I beg to differ , Putin is still two moves ahead. Not to say that their economy had a fantastic burst of revenue while Europe s whole is going shitwire. If Putin cedes two feet of land here and there that means he s giving a bit for a lot more. This war is not measured in "conquest" days but to show the world that Russia endures. I don t think ANY other country , giving the level and amount of the shit sanctions imposed would ve survived 2 months. Better get your news somewhere else.. And let s not forget one thing : Putin if fighting oh..what...the whole west s support ? What ? About 30-35 countries supporting Ukraine with arms ,money, billions of it , strategies and intelligence services of other countries help. If not for that..Ukraine would speak russian in whole in about 2 weekes from the end of February current.
Edit : the strategies and the game this man plays are exquisite . If you do not see that...then that s on you. You don t have to choose sides to admire qualities and strategies , even of your enemy. I refer to you, for your personal enjoyment and enrichment , The Art of War , Sun Tzu .

 

[JMR]

I am sure the Russian "regrouping" is going well.... for now

I m sure you re not sure

 

[JMR]

To me he is more of a gangster with his mob of cronies, I feel sorry for the ordinary Russian folk especially their conscript soldiers forced to fight a war they want nothing to do with.

Are you confusing Russia with Ukraine ? Military service , even today in Russia and unlike the late Ukraine ,is a national requirement of all males 18 to 27 for a periof of 12 months. You re of age , you re it. When you finished , you either dead or a man . Also , the russian army, even you consider them and Putin gangsters, you have to realize that is 'gangsterism" at state level with all of russia 's might behind it. right? So....

 

[RGH0]

If the West truely gave full support with modern aircraft and modern tanks the war would be over very soon but Putin in defeat would be even more dangerous for the world with his threats of nuclear war so unfortunately the West has to carefully calibrate its response and that comes at the expense of Ukrainian lives

The Russian ultra nationalists will not put up with a loss and Putin will be replaced with someone even worse if things don't go their way unfortunately

We will see how exquisite Putin's strategies are but so far they do not look all that great to me but then I am a long way from central Europe (luckily)

 

[JMR]

If the West truely gave full support with modern aircraft and modern tanks the war would be over very soon but Putin in defeat would be even more dangerous for the world with his threats of nuclear war so unfortunately the West has to carefully calibrate its response and that comes at the expense of Ukrainian lives

The Russian ultra nationalists will not put up with a loss and Putin will be replaced with someone even worse if things don't go their way unfortunately

We will see how exquisite Putin's strategies are but so far they do not look all that great to me but then I am a long way from central Europe (luckily)

no , you're not lucky. Ballistic missiles developed by russian army could reach. Not so say that you're by your own admission suffering from inflation and other problems related to Russia /Ukraine. However, do you see where i'm going with this? Just as you claim that if the west would've have given Ukraine all their might, it's safe to say that russians didn't put all their might in this invasion. So, there is your art of war. Putin knows the west won't do more, so he plays it close to the vest. Attrition, word of the day. Chess, word of yesterday . Check mate , word of the future , Europe being decimated/destabilized , while russian govt do their business with other up and coming countries: China, India , Pakistan, iran, South Africa as a whole , South America as a whole ....you have to see that right ?

 

[RGH0]

I am glad its all part of Putins "Cunning plan" I cant wait to see the next episode

 

[RGH0]

I guess its also part of his plan that the Russian army has become the largest supplier of military equipment to the Ukraine in the last few days taking over from the USA

 

[Larry Manton]

EV owners on briskoda.net have been doing the sums and calculated that with the cost per kWh of rapid public chargers and the increased cost of standard rate domestic electricity it is now CHEAPER per mile to drive a diesel car than an EV UNLESS you either charge for free at e.g. supermarket chargers (which are slow) or overnight at home IF you have a tariff that gives cheaper overnight rates (and which is also slow).

So for most people the cost per mile argument for an EV no longer holds true in the UK.

Dave, have no idea the cost to charge an EV, but electricity is still fairly plentiful here, although last tabulated about 60/70% is still produced by coal and NG. Then the latest in Brandons moves is halting that, so do the math. Supply and demand and if the supply goes down the demand did not.

Last info I read is that if everyone went EV tomorrow we would have to increase production by 40%, and by the way California is having brown outs, and has for years, and low water for Hydro. All of it defies any kind of logic, a commodity that seems to be out of vogue. We burn coal very clean now, so kill that which Obama did, and then hamstring the NG world, and for UWE nuclear, does not take a genius to see the end result.

I am not opposed to EV, just don't see the infrastructure in place. I know at one time San Francisco gave free parking spots to Toyota Prius. A Pretty durable little car but still backed by gas. In truth that backed small diesel even better. But so many people bought them for the green move and free parking that they finally eliminated it. That stated once they get enough EV, the cost of charging them going to go down RIGHT! You just can't fix stupid.

Larimore

 

[Crasher]

I'm am not opposed to EV's in principle, what I am opposed to is being forced to have one, it's undemocratic; if they are so good then that would not be necessary. What does worry me is that even if charging points are plentiful and the cars range as good as for an ICE car, we still don't have sufficient generating power to charge them; our national grid is on the edge now.

 

[PetrolDave]

I'm am not opposed to EV's in principle, what I am opposed to is being forced to have one, it's undemocratic; if they are so good then that would not be necessary. What does worry me is that even if charging points are plentiful and the cars range as good as for an ICE car, we still don't have sufficient generating power to charge them; our national grid is on the edge now.

I agree, the history of personal transport over the millennia has been one of constant improvement from bare feet thru shoes to the bicycle and the IC car - so why should we accept a new type of car that reduces our personal mobility because the infrastructure is not in place to recharge/refill it?

In the UK the availability of ultra rapid chargers on major routes is extremely poor and if those few that do exist were fully used the National Grid would fail - largely due to politicians turning off generating capacity because it's the 'wrong type' (coal or nuclear). The mantra of renewables isn't a solution as wind doesn't always blow and the sun doesn't always shine, and battery storage comes into conflict with EV production due to limited capacity to use (and recycle) natural resources especially Lithium.

We need to take a more measured approach to converting our economies to 'zero carbon' unless the goal is to destroy our economies but preserve the planet (whatever that means). As some very wise people have pointed out mankind is resourceful and we can adapt to planetary changes (be that natural or possibly induced by the activities of mankind) so the price of panicking now is unnecessary.

No I'm not a climate change denier as it's clearly happening, I question the supposed impacts and how much is due to natural cyclical changes and how much is caused by human activity.

 

[Crasher]

I am no denier although I have my doubts but it all comes back down to the FACT that the UK produces less than 1% of man made CO2 emissions, so what is the point in "net zero"? In seven years time there is the potential for 2 million new EV cars alone (not vans, HGV's etc) being sold every year. The Society of Motor Traders and Manufactures advises we need 2.3 million public charging points by 2030, so far there are 42000; it doesn't take a genius to work out we are heading for a disaster.

 

[JMR]

More news: Ursula von der Sucken of EU came up with the idea to force us to reduce consumption of energy at peak hours. Even crazier news, the Romanian Ministry of Energy advises as that we should buy new fridges, wash machines,stove tops , dryers and new devices that are more energy efficient. This guy is plain stupid , people don't have enough money to pay their 300-400 euros a month energy bill and he wants us to spend thousand of euros on newer energy efficient devices. I just bought all my devices 2-3 years ago, the most energy efficient at that time...what the hell is with this guy ?

In other news , a guy somewhere in the country side of Romania drilled for a water well and he hit a natural gas vein in his back yard, now it's been burning for few days until a gas company comes to cap the well or something. Talk about some luck..though the newscaster was talking about that the gas belongs to the state...hmmm..