CAN gateway coding for DQ500 swap

[Krikra]

Golf mk4 R32 converted from manual to DQ500.
Running fine, however cleaning up couple of things that previous owner didnt to properly - e.g. the drivetrain canbus was connected directly to backside of OBD diag port. I assume he did it to be able to access TCU via OBD port instead of coding or changing can gateway.
What is involved in making this right? Coding or replace the can gateway?

See details below:

Modeltype: 1J-Ikke tilgængelig (1J - VW Golf 4 (1998 > 2006))
Søgning: 01 02 03 08 15 16 17 19 22 29 35 36 37 39 46 47 55 56 57 75
76

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Styreenhed 02: Automatik (J743) Forklaringsfil:. NEZ\0BH-927-711.clb
Styreenhedsnr: SW: 0BH 300 043 T HW: 0BH 927 711 C
Komponent : TVS DQ500H05 9999
Revision : 00H05V01
Kodning : 0018
Forhandler : WSC 00000 000 00000
ASAM datasæt : EV_TCMDQ500021 001001
ROD: EV_TCMDQ500021_001_VW36.rod
VCID: 38292E11A2DAC14B8B0-806C

Ingen fejlkoder fundet.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Styreenhed 19: CAN Gateway Forklaringsfil: NEZ\6N0-909-901-19.lbl
Styreenhedsnr:: 6N0 909 901
Komponent : Gateway K<->CAN 0001
Kodning : 00006
Forhandler : WSC 31414
VCID: 70B9D63183BA590B830-513C

 

[siLc]

DQ500 into a R32 Mk4? Nice.

Mk4 "CAN gateway" is integrated into the instrument cluster - how do you plan on changing it?

 

[Krikra]

Thanks siLc, I didnt know that.
I am asking here to find how I can code or change so can gateway knows about trans on drivetrain canbus

 

[Uwe]

how I can code or change so can gateway knows about trans on drivetrain canbus

Try this: Re-code the gateway with the exact value that's already there (00006). Then ignition off for 30 seconds, and on for 30 seconds without starting the car. In principle, this should cause it to re-learn what modules are in the car.

-Uwe-

 

[Krikra]

Thanks Uwe, I tried hitting save (without changing 00006) and then ign off 30 seconds.
Doesnt seem to have any effect, at least I am still unable to communicate with 02 trans.

 

[Uwe]

Doesnt seem to have any effect, at least I am still unable to communicate with 02 trans.

Wait, are you expecting the Gateway in an Mk.4 cluster to be able to handle the translation between diagnostic data on the K-line used for all diagnostics in an Mk.4 and the powertrain CAN bus for a UDS TCU? I don't think that's going to work because the Mk.4 "gateway" has no clue how to do that, or even that it should.

-Uwe-

 

[dieseltje]

is like giving a neanderthal a book to read

 

[Krikra]

I was hoping there was a way to enable that I can scan dq500, see measuring blocks and so on via my obd port. Like I can with all the other canbus modules.
And like I could with dq500 when drivetrain canbus was connected to the obd port bus.
Is it not possible?
Mk4 R32 also came with DQ250, so obviously the gateway can work with DQ250 (maybe special gateway in those cars)

 

[Uwe]

Mk4 R32 also came with DQ250, so obviously the gateway can work with DQ250

Check a wiring diagram for that car; I'm pretty confident that transmission is connected directly to the K-Line, and the gateway isn't involved in diagnostic communications.

-Uwe-

 

[siLc]

Check a wiring diagram for that car; I'm pretty confident that transmission is connected directly to the K-Line, and the gateway isn't involved in diagnostic communications.

-Uwe-

That's indeed the case with the Mk4's DQ250 but at least I didn't see any indication of K-line on the DQ500 in it's variants on the Transporter T5.1 nor Tiguan Mk1.

 

[Krikra]

Checked wiring diagram and mk4 DQ250 cars does have K-line connected directly mechatronic -> obd diag port.
DQ250 Obviously also on drivetrain canbus but I assume the above means not much hope for establishing DQ500 diag through mk4 gateway (no K-line on DQ500).
So I assume the easiest way forward is a separate diag port for diag to DQ500.. (drivetrain canbus directly)

 

[Uwe]

So I assume the easiest way forward is a separate diag port for diag to DQ500.. (drivetrain canbus directly)

Why do you want to make it a separate port?

-Uwe-

 

[PetrolDave]

So I assume the easiest way forward is a separate diag port for diag to DQ500.. (drivetrain canbus directly)

IIRC the B7 A4 brought the Powertrain CAN directly to the OBD port along with the K and K2(L) lines - wouldn't that be the best thing to do here?

 

[Krikra]

Why do you want to make it a separate port?

-Uwe-

What better options do I have?

 

[Krikra]

IIRC the B7 A4 brought the Powertrain CAN directly to the OBD port along with the K and K2(L) lines - wouldn't that be the best thing to do here?

Doesnt seem right to me to splice drivetrain canbus onto the bus on obd port (from gateway).
Thats the way it was before. The guy I bought the car from had done it that way. But it lead to bus termination not being correct. So wanted to clean that up.

 

[Uwe]

Doesnt seem right to me to splice drivetrain canbus onto the bus on obd port (from gateway).

VAG doesn't usually do things that way, but one car model did do exactly that from the factory: The B7 Audi A4 had the powertrain CAN directly accessible on the OBD-II connector (pins 6 and 14). So I really don't see much harm in it.

-Uwe-

 

[Krikra]

VAG doesn't usually do things that way, but one car model did do exactly that from the factory: The B7 Audi A4 had the powertrain CAN directly accessible on the OBD-II connector (pins 6 and 14). So I really don't see much harm in it.

-Uwe-

Aha ok, does the B7 have both gateway bus AND drivetrain bus joined at obd port? or only drivetrain bus?
If I go that route not sure if I replace the exising canbus (gateway -> obd port) or leave them both connected at the obd port.

 

[PetrolDave]

Aha ok, does the B7 have both gateway bus AND drivetrain bus joined at obd port? or only drivetrain bus?
If I go that route not sure if I replace the exising canbus (gateway -> obd port) or leave them both connected at the obd port.

Only Powertrain CAN as the B7 never had a CAN Gateway of any kind, all other diagnostics were K & K2(L).

All 3 were connected to the OBD port.

How did the bus termination error you mention manifest itself, any functional errors?

 

[Krikra]

Only Powertrain CAN as the B7 never had a CAN Gateway of any kind, all other diagnostics were K & K2(L).

All 3 were connected to the OBD port.

How did the bus termination error you mention manifest itself, any functional errors?

Well saw what I think was canbus messages being lost and/or late..
E.g. sometimes shiftcut seemed to arrive AFTER the actual gearshift happened.
And likewise a few times saw gear blip misplaced.
Anyway not sure it is down to having drivetrain bus connected to gateway bus, but at least saw some strange resistance on the bus..
But also had other potenital issues with the bus e.g. some really long stub lengths.
So recently I completely redesigned the bus with shielded cable and no stubs.

Anyway, seems the way forward is to again connect drivetrain bus to obd port. Like it was before.

 

[dieseltje]

If you use separete obd port, is the same, as canbus is not directly connected to k-line. So you just put them in the same obd connector.

Is you DSG canbus in connection with engine canbus line?