A4 B8 2.0T intermittent no start

[alpo]

No start meaning cranks but no fire unless I open the throttle. I did not peek at the tach while cranking; will give that a look.

Injectors are Bosch from Pelican Parts.

Thanks,
Al

 

[Jef]

Every time some one says "it is a Bosch part", or worse "it came in a Bosch box"... an automotive angel technician gets it's wings ripped off and is forced to work on AMC Pacers. Having stated that... while it isn't looking good for the injectors if rail pressure testing ain't a testing so good again.... I'm not aware of this being a common cause of no fire during cranking.

But opening the throttle might be a sign of rich conditions, letting the engine air out. So um... you up for huffing the tail pipe the next time this happens... do you smell raw gas at the car's butthole?

 

[alpo]

I hear you on the parts. Never had a problem with proper parts from Pelican before...but it certainly appears that they are leaking again if there's nowhere else the pressure can be going. It may be a week or so before I can butt-sniff the car since it will take two people. Thanks!

 

[Jef]

For giggles, check compression as well. I don't have any reason to suspect it to be low... but we'd like to know if it is. It should be around 180PSI.

 

[alpo]

Ok, will do. Thanks

 

[alpo]

Is Audi USA online to be trusted selling OEM parts? They say they are OEM:

support@audiusaparts.com

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2014 Audi A4 Quattro

Home 2014 Audi A4 Quattro 06H-906-036-N

Fuel Injector - Audi (06H-906-036-N)​

• MSRP:$155.00
• Discount:$38.75 (25% off)
• Sale Price:$116.25

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This part fits your 2014 Audi A4 Quattro Change vehicle
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• Genuine:
  
  
• SKU:06H-906-036-N
• Other Names:Injector
• Description:
  A5. 2.0l. Q5. 2.0l. A4. 2.0l. Allroad. To 11/25/2013. Engine code cpma, cpmb.
• Condition:New
• Replaces:06H-906-036-J

 

[Uwe]

Is Audi USA online to be trusted selling OEM parts?

That does not look to be Audi corporate, but possibly a subsidiary of a dealership?

-Uwe-

 

[alpo]

Could be, I don't know. I'm looking for the best price on no-kidding OEM injectors...wanted to try online before going to the dealer!

 

[Jef]

Maybe those injectors on that website meet the specs and requirements as per Audi.... or not. I always suggest anything with an electrical connector on it, get it from the dealer. It is cheaper to do the job once.

 

[alpo]

Good advice....I'm obviously doing the job again! Just ordered them from the dealer. Ugh. At least Pelican agreed to take theirs back for store credit. Thanks

 

[alpo]

Update: Installed new dealer-ordered OEM injectors. Fuel pressure test via VCDS passes; pressure rises and holds nicely. No fuel in oil. Pelican Parts injectors returned; have yet to receive the promised credit. Hot start issue is STILL present; engine starts when throttle opened. Unscientifically checked evap cannister purge valve by blowing both ways; it does not leak when off. Cannot find an aftermarket purge valve for this car, a flex fuel CPMB engine...the valve is different that what anyone lists. Dealer seems to be the only source for this at $227 but I hate to keep throwing parts at the hot start issue...I'm already into it for two sets of injectors.

 

[Jef]

What was the compression?
What spark plugs are installed?

 

[alpo]

Did not get a chance to test compression yet. Will check plugs at that time. Thanks

 

[alpo]

Jef, I'm back! The problem with my daughter's car was minimal in the coolness of winter but is back now that it is warmer. Don't really know if that's coincidence or not. So, to recap, it's a 2014 A4B8 2.0T quattro. I've changed injectors...twice. Second time with OEM from the dealer. Got a hard fault a couple of months ago on the cam position sensor; replaced with a new OEM one and that code cleared up without returning. I've checked compression: 130-135 on all four. Seems low to me, but I don't know what it should be. Just did another fuel leakdown test: coolant at 95C but idling from cold (drivetrain not heat soaked); 40 bar running; 50 bar in 50 sec after shutdown; 60 bar in another 50 sec; 70 bar in another 60 sec; 80 bar in another 75 sec. Oil does not smell of fuel.

Symptoms now: starts fine from cold, but not when warm within an hour of shutdown. Requires throttle to be opened partway to get some air in there. Other than that it runs fine. VCDS log below. Any ideas?

Thanks,
Al

22656 - Fuel Trim; Bank 1 
          P0172 00 [096] - System Too Rich
          Intermittent - Not Confirmed - Tested Since Memory Clear
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 00000001
                    Fault Priority: 2
                    Fault Frequency: 5
                    Mileage: 200360 km
                    Date: 2022.04.29
                    Time: 15:36:56

                    Engine RPM: 795.50 /min
                    Normed load value: 23.1 %
                    Vehicle speed: 3 km/h
                    Coolant temperature: 86 °C
                    Intake air temperature: 61 °C
                    Ambient air pressure: 920 mbar
                    Voltage terminal 30: 13.711 V
                    Unlearning counter according OBD: 35
                    Engine status: COENG_RUNNING
                    Engine status-Test_Program_Co Eng st COMPU VERB UBYTE: 3

10530 - EVAP System 
          P0456 00 [096] - Very Small Leak Detected
          Intermittent - Not Confirmed - Tested Since Memory Clear

4106 - Bank 1; System too Rich at Idle 
          P2188 00 [104] - -
          Intermittent - Confirmed - Tested Since Memory Clear
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 00000001
                    Fault Priority: 2
                    Fault Frequency: 2
                    Mileage: 200360 km
                    Date: 2022.04.29
                    Time: 15:36:15

                    Engine RPM: 821.50 /min
                    Normed load value: 20.4 %
                    Vehicle speed: 0 km/h
                    Coolant temperature: 96 °C
                    Intake air temperature: 51 °C
                    Ambient air pressure: 910 mbar
                    Voltage terminal 30: 14.277 V
                    Unlearning counter according OBD: 23
                    Engine status: COENG_RUNNING
                    Engine status-Test_Program_Co Eng st COMPU VERB UBYTE: 3

 

[EuroX]

Your issue if the HPFP not injectors or anything else that has been mentioned. Please drive the vehicle get it nice and hot then shut it down and watch fuel pressure at the rail climb. If you have no leaks in the system you shoulld see a pressure of 90-120bar. It will be a steady climb. If you have a leaking HPFP the fuel pressure will plateau somewhere between 50-80bar and will never go higher. I normally time this test over a period of 10-15minutes. If your pressure never reaches 100-120bar and pressure plateaus early you need a HPFP this is common on this engine. Since you have high faults this indicates that you have fuel in the oil. Remove oil cap to confirm if any fuel odor is in the fuel it can be hard to tell. But this is a known issue. If your 100% sure that this is not your issue I need the full vin to see if a particular TSB applies to this car.


Also for those interested audiusaparts.com is the wholesale branch directly from audi.

 

[alpo]

Thanks, EuroX! I can post the VIN in the morning.

 

[alpo]

VIN: WAUKFAFLXEN011643

 

[EuroX]

The TSB I suspected does apply to this car however it shows different faults and symptom codes so I am not sure this is indeed the fix for your vehicle. That being said I think we need to look at the HPFP and perform the test procedure I mentioned. Never the less here is the TSB I was suspecting might be your issue and as per you vin it is valid for this vehicle but they are very specific only if it has those code listed.

https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/2017/MC-10127910-9999.pdf

 

[alpo]

Thanks for that! I'll get my hands on the car again this weekend and do the longer fp test. If that fails, will replace the hpfp. I noticed you mentioned audiusaparts....the pump is still pretty expensive there. Are any other brands acceptable, such as Hitachi?

 

[EuroX]

Hitachi is the oem Vendor for those pumps they make the pump to Audi's specifications. I see no harm in going that route. In fact some of the earlier cars still had hitachi cast on the pump body but later on they changed all that. No longer cast on the pump body.