Language Chit-Chat

[JMR]

it makes technical sense ,but :

According to the Merriam-Webster dictionary: ”the word gage is a variant spelling of gauge, which in the noun form refers broadly to measurement (“fine-gauge wire”) or a standard by which something is measured (“polls are a good gauge of how voters might vote”).” The Merriam-Webster adds: “Gauge is by far the preferred spelling in general usage for both the noun and the verb; we encourage you use it.”
Gauge has become the most common word to describe a measuring device or a gauge pressure sensor measuring relative to ambient pressure.

I was taught in school that gauge was the right spelling as I am sure it's still current teaching in all schools across US now as in my school years time . Now I am to blame Virginia Western CC ( not enough money for a more prestigious college ) for teaching me wrong or should I defer to Mr. Newell ?

 

[Uwe]

The Merriam-Webster adds: “Gauge is by far the preferred spelling in general usage for both the noun and the verb; we encourage you use it.”

I agree with that. However, "Gage" isn't actually incorrect and sometimes people just want to be different because they can.

-Uwe-

 

[PetrolDave]

I agree with that. However, "Gage" isn't actually incorrect and sometimes people just want to be different because they can.

-Uwe-

There are some other examples of US spellings leaving out the letter U, the most obvious being colour/color.

It seems to me, as a resident of 'the other side of the pond', that US spellings can be more phonetic and less willing to include redundant letters?

 

[Uwe]

that US spellings can be more phonetic

As someone whose mother tongue was German, I find the idea that any flavor of English is more phonetic than another to be rather laffabal.

-Uwe-

 

[DV52]

Why does the USGS use the spelling "gage" instead of "gauge"? | U.S. Geological Survey

The spelling of “gage” is part of our very rich USGS history. We have used that spelling for over a hundred years. In 1888, USGS Director John Wesley Powell met a very forward-thinking graduate student named Frederick Haynes Newell. Powell was so impressed that he made Newell the first full-time...

www.usgs.gov

-Uwe-

@Uwe: It's a pet hate of mine and don't get me wrong- I've absolutely no doubt that your countryman, Mr Newell was indeed a "forward thinking" and "impressive" individual.

I just believe that (interesting) explanations like the one in your link shouldn't confuse historical and scientific fact from personal opinion!! Particularly in these times of "fake news" when the boundary is so much the focus of almost everything that's published!!

USGS (hadn't heard of them before I saw your link) appears to be a product of your government - so it should be completely unbiased (even if patriotism was the motivator for the flowery adjectives).

Interesting way for USGS to write their "about us" (is the hyperbole really appropriate, or necessary?):

Who We Are​

Created by an act of Congress in 1879, the U.S. Geological Survey has evolved over the decades, matching its talent and knowledge to the progress of science and technology. The USGS is the sole science agency for the Department of the Interior. It is sought out by thousands of partners and customers for its natural science expertise and its vast earth and biological data holdings.​

It seems to me, as a resident of 'the other side of the pond', that US spellings can be more phonetic and less willing to include redundant letters?

Dave: With the admission that like Uwe, I also started life as a non-English speaker - I'm sure you will agree that written English (on either side of the Pond) is a grossly inefficient tool for communications.

It's perhaps prophetic (maybe even ironic) that you happen to have chosen the term "phonetic" in your response because it is a palpable example of the ludicrous nature of the language - it's an oxymoron in one word!!

But mercifully, it doesn't really matter how English is written in today's highly connected world - because common usage will define the winner!! It's interesting though (I think) that probably the greatest influence to what spelling we accept in the modern era is very much a product of technology (i.e. applications like spell-checkers on forums like this, and elsewhere)!!

 

[JMR]

And to think that i've started this *crap about gage* also as a non native english speaker .
@DV52 ..say ...what is your mother language if I may ask ?
I always try to spell my words right and excell at it ,sometimes when i'm not sure about it i look it up..out of respect for the english language .Sometimes i don t and i just go with it.I also know that I should be an upper case letter, but sometimes I just write *i* for convenience. However just as @Uwe tries his best to speak a good/perfect german when he has opportunity , i also try to be on my best grammar/spelling when using the english language which i have not verbally tried since 2011-2012 but only on few ocassions .So yeah , seeing *gage* on an instrument cluster really riled me up if i remembered that after 25 years.

 

[DV52]

@JMR : Like many of the "new colonies" that England fostered (America/Canada being the other examples), Australia is a diaspora - so it's made-up of peoples from virtually every part of this fragile blue planet.

For my ancestors, the 2 x principal reasons for making such a long and arduous sea crossing to this isolated island were probably the Australian gold-rush in mid 19th century and the mass migration at the end of WW2. My folks were born in Italy - but they emigrated to Australia before WW2. I'm a first generation Australian and my "mother tongue" was the local Italian dialect that was spoken by the proud peasants from the village in which both my parents were born (southern Italy).

However, unlike both you and @Uwe, I personally see no merit in any language (English, or otherwise) as an art-form, or as a "purist" pursuit! That said, I fully acknowledge that for some, language can be more - but not for me (albeit I do enjoy good, well-written poetry - which is rare)

To me, language is nothing more-or-less than a means of communications. To the degree that written English serves this purpose, stuff like correct spelling, proper sentence structure and good grammar are important - but that's it IMO. I certainly never feel the need to "respect.....English language". I save my respect for other things!!

Don

 

[PetrolDave]

Dave: With the admission that like Uwe, I also started life as a non-English speaker - I'm sure you will agree that written English (on either side of the Pond) is a grossly inefficient tool for communications.

It doesn't take watching many non-English TV programmes with subtitles to see that other languages (Chinese, French and Spanish spring to mind) can be even more inefficient communication tools - the number of words in some sentences and the time taken to speak them can be quite astounding and make English seem more like SMS text speak

 

[JMR]

I am not saying that i will bow my head to the english or any other language nor do i try to be a purist while using it. I am just trying to respect it s spelling and where it s necessary it s context / grammar. I also think that speaking / writing 2-3-4 languages fluently to be an accomplishment for anyone..as a side remark. It helps you communicate better right ? As far as you speaking italian dialect of your close knit community it s not the same as being taught a different language years down the road. So i will consider you my friend a native english speaker and i expect from native speakers purity and respect for their own language . If native speakers wont do it..who then ? Me ? Nope..i am just trying to use it in a corect mode and respect it s structure.

 

[JMR]

It doesn't take watching many non-English TV programmes with subtitles to see that other languages (Chinese, French and Spanish spring to mind) can be even more inefficient communication tools - the number of words in some sentences and the time taken to speak them can be quite astounding and make English seem more like SMS text speak

Yes i agree on that , sometime english is more condensed than other languages and it can lessen a phrase by 2-3 words or even more compared to other languages but that it s due to the structure.
Now for example : fuck ! It can mean so many things ( it can explain surprise , upset , desperation, joy , etc etc.
To be able to express those feeling in my language for example i should use a different meaning for each emotion and so many more words .

 

[Uwe]

Posts 59 to 70 in this thread were formerly in the 2020 VW Tiguan Change country Code thread where they weren't really on-topic. Nope, I'm not upset with anyone; heck I participated in the digression myself, but this Language Chit-Chat thread seems like a better place for them.

-Uwe-

 

[Ronaldo]

Yes i agree on that , sometime english is more condensed than other languages and it can lessen a phrase by 2-3 words or even more compared to other languages but that it s due to the structure.
Now for example : fuck ! It can mean so many things ( it can explain surprise , upset , desperation, joy , etc etc.
To be able to express those feeling in my language for example i should use a different meaning for each emotion and so many more words .

For me, English also looked as an easier language to learn, especially because it has a simpler structure compared to other languages, For example, you don't have genders for objects in English, while in Spanish, Portuguese, French, Italian, etc, you have to know if the word is masculine or feminine in order to write a phrase correctly. And in languages like German you have also the neutrum. I remember how I found strange that the word for "sun" is masculine in Portuguese but feminine in German, while "moon" is feminine in Portuguese and masculine in German, and "star" is feminine in Portuguese and neutral in German. Not having to worry about memorizing the gender of thousands of words and not worrying about cases or declinations seems to be a great advantage of English. Maybe it also helped to establish English as an official language for scientific production.

 

[Quintus Rotam]

I think that what helped English (language) get established in the old days had more to do with "assertive persuasion" than its simplicity.
Assertive persuasion:

Probably the same way Portuguese became the preferred language in Brasil, or Spanish in the rest of Latin America.

 

[Uwe]

"star" is feminine in Portuguese and neutral in German.

NEIN! "Stern" ist maskulin!



-Uwe-

PS: It's funny, but if one grows up speaking a language, there's no "memorization" of genders, or at least I don't recall any; one just picks them up and remembers them forever. Although in this case, I did start questioning myself and checked Duden.

 

[Ronaldo]

NEIN! "Stern" ist maskulin!



-Uwe-

PS: It's funny, but if one grows up speaking a language, there's no "memorization" of genders, or at least I don't recall any; one just picks them up and remembers them forever. Although in this case, I did start questioning myself and checked Duden.

I was sure it was "das stern", my bad! Actually, Portuguese has something that helps much: most nouns terminated with "a" are feminine and most terminated with "o" are masculine, but there are exceptions. In German, as it's not the language I grew up speaking and there were no easy clues as there is in Portuguese, I had to try to memorize, and it clearly seems I failed!

 

[Uwe]

In German, as it's not the language I grew up speaking and there were no easy clues as there is in Portuguese,

Agreed. German gendering has about as few clues as English spelling!

-Uwe-

 

[JSWTDI09]

Agreed. German gendering has about as few clues as English spelling!

-Uwe-

I think that a major source for the problematic spelling in English is the fact that it is a "bastard language". England is a relatively small island and over the centuries England has been invaded (and ruled) by many different cultures and they all left behind pieces of their languages. The English language is comprised by words stolen (borrowed) from many other languages. Some words are from Latin, French, Germanic languages, and Norse languages, and many other words derived from changes that occurred in some of the British "colonies" like India, Australia, and America. Many languages are best defined by their rules while the English language is best defined by it's exceptions to the rules.

In some ways English is simpler than many other languages (like gendered nouns) but in other ways (like spelling) it is just plain weird. The one thing I have always loved about the German language is the fact that if you hear a word pronounced correctly - you can spell it and if you see it written, you know how to pronounce it. However the thing I have always disliked about German is that there are 5 different words for the English word "the" (die, der, das, den,& dem).

Have Fun!

Don

 

[iichel]

As a Dutchmen having lived in Switzerland, having talked English for most of my academic career:

(and yes, I've intentionally made it unreadable )

 

[Ronaldo]