BY THE POWER OF VCDS ... not a Generator and SMOG machine installed @ rear of TDI TP!

BY THE POWER OF VCDS ... not a Generator and SMOG machine installed @ rear of TDI TP!

Related threads:

http://forums.ross-tech.com/showthread.php?3147-What-is-Jack-talking-about-0x01-08-000

http://forums.ross-tech.com/showthr...smelly-Garbage-can-dumped-on-Motorsports!-WTF

http://forums.ross-tech.com/showthread.php?4111-cheaters-recalls-discuss

http://forums.ross-tech.com/showthread.php?805-Clean-Diesel-Readiness-Status


Okay here is why I take issue with the University in WVA..........as if they did something miraculous, by adding a generator, and SMOG machine tail pipe sniffer to go measure NOX down the road for output.

This is nothing special....... nor was it needed!
I guess for theatrics it gets an A+ for a hot news story, verse using the OBD2 port to log the data, you know....."boring" from the actual sensors that are already in the car!

FACT: Not one state within the USA uses a SMOG machine on a car TDI/diesel TP, because the OBD was considered sufficient.
I guess people are just not using the tools they have right in front of them.

Realize that VCDS and data logging are a powerful tool, further the significance of the MIL, and the systems ability to be its own SMOG "mobile" inspection station.

If you become proficient at logging data, you can determine if a car has had its diagnostic stack tampered.

This would include what VAG did, and what the aftermarket tuners do when they modify or even delete SMOG devices.

Quick example:
Most understand the quick test that techs do at dealers/shops, to see things like requested boost, verse actual 0x01-08-115 fields 3 and 4 or even an OBD2 checksum.

Just because an MIL isn't ON, and a car is stating it's ready by means of "Readiness completed" with no DTC's....doesn't mean it's clean or ready.

I encourage you to pay attention to the VCDS label caption files with specifications co0ntained and compare them to actual values on the road tests.

I have built some fun testing methods to log a "Modified controller", verse a "Stock" one.

You can try it too!

This is done by adding a dual controller, via piggy backing the units, to further observe the outputs as they are reported to different software versions.
This is done to see the OEM and the Aftermarket programming differences by versions to hardware.
Good old compare and contrast..........

Than log with twin VCDS cables to each controller, and set the clocks to sync the outputs to compare the data on the DCY.

See what your differences are with actual readiness tests, and where the basic settings show the final value.
You should be splendidly surprised what you observe.

He could of just logged the DPF pile up and OXS values with VCDS!
My ash was sky high when in the nefarious mode, because the ABS couldn't be recoded at the time.........the EPA was deaf when informed!

I often wonder why a state or EPA just doesn't implement a roller routine, to further log the data on a road test via OBD and spit out the numbers reported, or just send the customer out with a OBD2 port monitor once every 2 years to take a picture.

No TP sniffer needed, nor dyno........... and 4x4 could be done this way too............CHEAP!
The insurance companies have been exploiting this already..... for driving habits to underwrite risk.

NostraJackAss Has Spoken!

Jack@European_Parts said:

I guess for theatrics it gets an A+ for a hot news story, verse using the OBD2 port to log the data, you know....."boring" from the actual sensors that are already in the car!

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Given their record of tampering with ECU programming, would you really trust anything they said coming out of the OBD port for block measuring values?

Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.....

Jack: I agree with vrehien: In a previous life as a young pimply faced engineer I managed a metering laboratory for a local authority - as a pubescent nerd, I remember it was like a child being let loose in a toy-store! Anyhow, about 90% of our work was based on the assumption that the readings from transducers in commercial products were rubbish (and much of the time, this was true). I'm not suggesting that manufacturers (be they in the car business, or not) deliberately fudge the measurements from their sensors - it's just that our laboratory transducers were calibrated to a much higher standard and our clients wanted certified readings in a written report.

Don

Given their record of tampering with ECU programming, would you really trust anything they said coming out of the OBD port for block measuring values?

Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.....

Click to expand...

That's the point Art............

Measuring blocks are observation of the sensor data the ECU see's, and can be cross checked with a scope/meter.

If you watch the data and compare the tests from basics settings, to what measuring blocks report, this is how you can see the diagnostic stacks ability to display the data of a test or a fault code.

Even if the fault is not displayed to trigger an MIL, you can still observe the deviation of a block value..... to what the specification should actually be or is.

While the sniffer in the tailpipe is a good cross check of that data, the cycle beating could of been observed faster, if more people paid attention to the actual block data during a road test, and didn't rely on a DTC flag, or a readiness test that is a farce based on an altered stack.

It's time people learn how to use VCDS..........a scope and a meter............

Most of all you have VCDS & superior log sample rates in some cases .........use it for goodness sake! is what I'm saying.

Seriously the industry is really messed up.

Guys don't know how to use their own tools in their custody..............GFF must DIE! because it perpetuates stupid!

Jack: I agree with vrehien: In a previous life as a young pimply faced engineer I managed a metering laboratory for a local authority - as a pubescent nerd, I remember it was like a child being let loose in a toy-store! Anyhow, about 90% of our work was based on the assumption that the readings from transducers in commercial products were rubbish (and much of the time, this was true). I'm not suggesting that manufacturers (be they in the car business, or not) deliberately fudge the measurements from their sensors - it's just that our laboratory transducers were calibrated to a much higher standard and our clients wanted certified readings in a written report.

Don

Click to expand...

I agree with cross checking a calibration of a sensor or to be within specification.

What I am saying is use the actual tool at hand and understand what it is you are working on.

DONT TRUST!.......... Further Verify!

I think it's funny when you can actually see the faults using VCDS, however, no one see's it......... because they negate to look.

Jack@European_Parts said:

I think it's funny when you can actually see the faults using VCDS, however, no one see's it......... because they negate to look.

Click to expand...

Jack: I always remember the words of my art teacher at high-school (not sure what you guys call the school that educate kids in their teens): "DV52", she you say with regular and monotonous regularity "you look, but you don't see" - I'm very, very, very bad with an artist's brush!!

That's why forums like this are so useful - because each forum colleague is able to add a different piece to the diagnostic jig-saw puzzle. The ability for humans to see unique patterns in stuff that is often hidden to others is why problems are better and more quickly solved by many - rather than by individual! I suspect that this was the motivation for a certain individual in setting-up this forum.

Don

Jack: I always remember the words of my art teacher at high-school (not sure what you guys call the school that educate kids in their teens): "DV52", she you say with regular and monotonous regularity "you look, but you don't see" - I'm very, very, very bad with an artist's brush!!

That's why forums like this are so useful - because each forum colleague is able to add a different piece to the diagnostic jig-saw puzzle. The ability for humans to see unique patterns in stuff that is often hidden to others is why problems are better and more quickly solved by many - rather than by individual! I suspect that this was the motivation for a certain individual in setting-up this forum.

Don

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Oh I can read & see patterns ..........that's why I'm special ED.
Your Art teacher was wise......... because often many things can hide in plain site in such creations.
What is old can look young..........all perspective & of course the Dark via light switch or candle blown out.

This actual image below is the one we learned in school from my Art teacher.
She was very insistent on the use of Miss ( Miz ) verse Mrs.........and introduced us to the Kiln.
Art class was fun..........

Jack@European_Parts said:

Oh I can read & see patterns ..........

Click to expand...

Jack: I have absolutely no doubt whatsoever that you can see patterns that are hidden to others (it's very evident in the stuff the you write)!

Jack@European_Parts said:

my Art teacher..........introduced us to the Kiln.

Click to expand...

My art teacher failed to teach me how to paint - but she introduced us to (the) Klint (Gustav) - I doubt the he knew anything about OBD, but he made-up for this ignorance with his paint brush!!

Now I encourage the following............after the statement above and why a meter or scope must be backed up with a manual cross check.

Take a static resistor, and install it in an EGT of any of the 4 individual EGT's in a CR TDI.

Watch what cross checks can do to sensors as they are reported in block values.... within an ECU, & during a warm-up cycle or after, or additionally a DTC memory reset.

Sensor values can in fact be manipulated in block values to display what ever the ECU wants to display in programming, and further disqualify an aftermarket part, because the calibrations are so finite ..............

This can be observed with OXS, MAF and EGT's.....etc.


Just watch the VCDS blocks via LOG "RAT" the aftermarket tuner or OEM OUT!

There needs to be a vcds for dummies book. I would buy it.

I spent big $$$ on a tool simply to make some convenient tweaks on my vehicles, and while I am mostly comfortable doing those simple changes, I know that I have barely scratched the surface of vcds capabilities.

While I know that RT has their own reasons, it is still frustrating for me that hex-net (or other RT products) don't support bluetooth, and thus simple people like me have resort to cheapo ELM dongles to use simple but effect apps like TORQUE for android to get a nice set of widgets/dials/gauges/logging to view on a cheap tablet.

Yes I have reviewed a lot (but certainly not all) the wiki, and while information may be available out there, it is (for some at least) entirely something else to be able to fully understand and make use of that info in order to use such tools effectively.

sorry for my ramble, hope it is not too off topic

^^^^^ D-Dub: I'm with you! I'm constantly searching for entry level material on OBD topics - they are rare! But at least you are living in the correct part of the world for "physical" access to resources - unlike those of us that inhabit a far way continent on a remote and distant nebula!

Wouldn't it be great to have an address on Sumneytown Pike - I'm sure that with a box of doughnuts and a winning smile, you could go walk into RT HQ anytime and get all the advice that you need!

Don

PS: Odd thing about knowledge: the more you know, the more you realise that you don't know -there's a perverse advantage in ignorance (the ultimate reality)!

^^^^^ D-Dub: I'm with you! I'm constantly searching for entry level material on OBD topics - they are rare! But at least you are living in the correct part of the world for "physical" access to resources - unlike those of us that inhabit a far way continent on a remote and distant nebula!

Wouldn't it be great to have an address on Sumneytown Pike - I'm sure that with a box of doughnuts and a winning smile, you could go walk into RT HQ anytime and get all the advice that you need!

Don

PS: Odd thing about knowledge: the more you know, the more you realise that you don't know -there's a perverse advantage in ignorance (the ultimate reality)!

Click to expand...

I make mistakes and I don't know everything contrary to the pedestal I often get put on..........
It's cold up here and very lonely.

I prefer ignorance is bliss............

Just in context with Jack's post #15 here http://forums.ross-tech.com/showthread.php?7728-A6-2-7T-Fried-ECU/page2
My opinion is that US governmental institutions are going a bit crazy with all those things. In most European countries a simple principles work: Each car must pass exhaust emissions test each year. As newer car by model year, as stronger limits it has got. If car passes tests, it is ok and allowed for use on public roads. Noone cares how engine is controlled - hi-tec electronics or ancient fully mechanical carburettor

Martin .......that's ass backward, because not one state in the United States hooks up to a tail pipe of a TDI.
Further .....emission tests don't become more strict here and actually become more lenient.

The reliance on the obd alone has left a huge gaping hole open.

we used to have separate state ran smog checkers here in Missouri up until a few years ago.

Man did that suck. Waiting in line for hours only to have your old jalopy not pass, then have to go to a garage to have them work on it for a minimum of a few hundred bucks, so you could go back and wait in line a few more hours to have it rechecked.

repeat ad nauseum.

For awhile they put those smog checker vans on the on ramps to highways, with cameras and sniffers and if you got lucky you could get an automated smog check pass.

Now they got rid of all that stuff, if you car is like 5 years old or less you don't need any emissions/safety inspections.

And you can do 2 year plates which are nice to only run around getting inspections etc every other year.

we used to have separate state ran smog checkers here in Missouri up until a few years ago.

Man did that suck. Waiting in line for hours only to have your old jalopy not pass, then have to go to a garage to have them work on it for a minimum of a few hundred bucks, so you could go back and wait in line a few more hours to have it rechecked.

repeat ad nauseum.

For awhile they put those smog checker vans on the on ramps to highways, with cameras and sniffers and if you got lucky you could get an automated smog check pass.

Now they got rid of all that stuff, if you car is like 5 years old or less you don't need any emissions/safety inspections.

And you can do 2 year plates which are nice to only run around getting inspections etc every other year.

Click to expand...

When the systems work properly, and are not tampered it's great, however, the AFT has decided that Motorsports is emissions deletes, and not innovation anymore!

The aftermarket has been so successful at it, that it has been embraced by the OEM's........ where did that get them?

Other than EGR........... which should be banned in my opinion.
Job security until so.............. I will continue cleaning them and the messy intakes.