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Thread: Tisí the HVAC Season

  1. #11
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    Any idea how the compressor load is calculated?

    Specifically on a 1K0 820 047 HS Climatic PQ35 142 1111


    Which sensors/values are used?

  2. #12
    FoRT jyoung8607's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikeme View Post
    Any idea how the compressor load is calculated?

    Specifically on a 1K0 820 047 HS Climatic PQ35 142 1111

    Which sensors/values are used?
    It's not a measured or discovered input, it's a calculated and commanded output. It's just based on how much evaporator-to-condenser heat transfer Climatronic thinks is needed at any given time, depending on needs to cool down or dehumidify the cabin, or defog the windshield, etc.

    Jason

  3. #13
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    thanks,

    kind of an intermediate value?



    I logged some hvac controller info, and wonder what all to make of it.

    does the load value then get blended with pressure reading and compressor speed to generate the control valve current?

    is there some place this kind of detail is described?

  4. #14
    NostraJackAss Jack@European_Parts's Avatar
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    Maybe the SSP Mike....
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  5. #15
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    I have looked for an SSP with the Compressor load (in Nm) explained. my quest is unsuccessful. plenty of info on control systems, ducts, and even drive couplings.

    I want to guess that this is really meant to communicate to the Engine control module an estimate of the idle load the compressor will apply, to feed engine control parameters.

    on the bright side, my Refrigerant control valve (RCV) has started to stick a bit.
    On starting after sitting for a while (overnight at least, perhaps less time is required) starting the car, then calling for max AC,

    the current is maxed at 0.82 amps but the pressure remains ambient (7 bar or so) and the evaporator temperature does not decrease.
    after a while, five or ten minutes, sometimes helped by turning ac off then on, the pressure increases (12 bar or so), followed by evaporator temp reducing,
    and then by the passenger asking for the temperature to be adjusted.

    but like the man with a roof that leaks only in the rain, I wait for cooler weather to tackle replacement of the RCV on my compressor.
    Last edited by mikeme; 07-07-2016 at 08:23 AM.

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  7. #16
    Ross-Tech Employee Dana's Avatar
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    SSP 881203 Heating, Air Conditioning and Climate Control Systems Operation and Diagnosis dates back to 2002 but they do mention "Denso externally controlled" compressors controlled by "A/C Compressor Regulating Valve N280". It goes on to mention "high frequency of 500 Hz" but it didn't get into much detail.

    I searched for N208 in the 89G303 The Touareg Heating, Ventilation, and Air Conditioning Systems Design and Function -and- SSP 894303 The Phaeton Heating and Air Conditioning System Design and Function but they didn't include amperage info either.

    I wouldn't doubt this info lives somewhere but at the present time your Engine and Auto HVAC feedback theory, like old-school power steering load signals sent to the engine, sounds entire plausible.

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  9. #17
    Ross-Tech Employee Sebastian's Avatar
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    @mikeme, likely a bad compressor. The torque value is calculated, considering that yours doesn't move pretty much at all - have you checked the compressor clutch? You may want to post a complete Auto-Scan (preferrable in a seperate topic, so we can keep this one a bit cleaner) which also covers the VIN - there are a few RoW TPIs (and probably NAR ones too) which are likely relevant to your case.
    Sebastian @ Ross-Tech.com // VCDS Rookie since 2003

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  11. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dana View Post
    SSP 881203 Heating, Air Conditioning and Climate Control Systems Operation and Diagnosis dates back to 2002 but they do mention "Denso externally controlled" compressors controlled by "A/C Compressor Regulating Valve N280". It goes on to mention "high frequency of 500 Hz" but it didn't get into much detail.

    I searched for N208 in the 89G303 The Touareg Heating, Ventilation, and Air Conditioning Systems Design and Function -and- SSP 894303 The Phaeton Heating and Air Conditioning System Design and Function but they didn't include amperage info either.

    I wouldn't doubt this info lives somewhere but at the present time your Engine and Auto HVAC feedback theory, like old-school power steering load signals sent to the engine, sounds entire plausible.
    Dana: SSP 208 Air Conditioner in the Motor Vehicle is an interesting read - It suggests that clutch-less compressors are actually designed to operate at two set-points: what VW calls "High delivery rate for high capacity cooling" and "Low delivery rate for low capacity cooling". Does this vehicle have a "wobble-plate" style compressor and is the stability of the operation of the internal-regulating-valve fertile ground for further investigation - given that the results in the highlighted column in mike's table are largely two-state ?

    Don
    Last edited by DV52; 07-09-2016 at 12:50 AM.
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  13. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by DV52 View Post
    Dana: SSP 208 Air Conditioner in the Motor Vehicle is an interesting read - It suggests that clutch-less compressors are actually designed to operate at two set-points: what VW calls "High delivery rate for high capacity cooling" and "Low delivery rate for low capacity cooling". Does this vehicle have a "wobble-plate" style compressor and is the stability of the operation of the internal-regulating-valve fertile ground for further investigation - given that the results in the highlighted column in mike's table are largely two-state ?

    Don
    Looks to me like page 18 of SSP_208_d1.pdf says:

    All control positions between upper stop (100 %)
    and the lower stop (approx. 5 %) are adapted to the required delivery rate
    by altering the chamber pressure.

    The two examples discussed in following pages are to allow comparison between higher and lower volume (and flow)

    (this is similar to seeing discussions of thermostats. Open and closed are usually shown, but in reality, they continuously vary the degree of flow based on temperature within a range.)

    This is in a discussion of internally regulated swash (aka wobble) plate compressors.

    The compressor in my car, has that internal spring-controlled regulator replaced with an electrically operated valve, which performs similar control of the position of the swash plate, and thereby the volume of the compressor.

    http://www.sanden.com/pistoncompressors.html provides some info on several compressor models.

    the one in my 2009 Jetta TDI wagon is a Sanden PXE16

    seems like the PXV16 is similar to the one shown in SSP 208 on page 17 as self regulating,

    and the compressors described as fixed displacement are referred to in the SSP as non-self regulating


    looking back at the data in the chart I posted http://forums.ross-tech.com/showthre...ll=1#post31379 , the system was working pretty well, high side pressure went from ambient (around 7 bar which is around 100 psi, expected value for a system at rest around 90 degrees f)

    and around ten seconds after start, the pressure is up to speed. (13 bar, 200 psi.) the pressure might be a little low, but it got there quick.
    Last edited by mikeme; 07-10-2016 at 05:19 AM.

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