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Thread: Security Access for USA 2016 MK7 Golf R - 17/Instruments

  1. #21
    Ross-Tech Employee Sebastian's Avatar
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    Don, pretty much all modules are like that. There's rarely only one code, also codes don't just apply to adaptation channels... They can be used to restrict pretty much any diagnostic function as well as do special things which aren't even on the menu (similar to codes enabling regeneration in some ECMs).
    Sebastian @ Ross-Tech.com // VCDS Rookie since 2003

    »Nichts erweitert das eigene Wissen mehr,
    als die Meinung eines Andersdenkenden.«

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  3. #22
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    25327 does not seem to work on my 2016 GTI SE. I am trying to change the fuel gauge settings. It initially accepts code 25327, but when I try to input a new value it says that a 'security code' is required. Damn.

  4. #23
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    So, we're just kind of hosed on this until someone that works for VW or a vendor chimes in with the security access? Dang. Really hoping to change this black-ice warning temp (more easily than the re-coding "workaround" that was suggested over the Vortex).

    Just tell me who I have to buy some beer for and what they like, and I'm there.

  5. #24
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    Yep - we are totally stuck.
    There are 10,000 possible combinations. I used excel to extrapolate them all and then eliminate all the ones with the same number more than 3 times in a row just working logically (like 24443)

    There is still loads!!!!
    I tried the first 50 in the 2xxxx range and then gave up.
    Excel calculated it would take just over 6 days constant to try them all in the module :-P

  6. #25
    Benevolent Dictator Uwe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xpower View Post
    Yep - we are totally stuck.
    There are 10,000 possible combinations. I used excel to extrapolate them all and then eliminate all the ones with the same number more than 3 times in a row just working logically (like 24443)

    There is still loads!!!!
    I tried the first 50 in the 2xxxx range and then gave up.
    Excel calculated it would take just over 6 days constant to try them all in the module :-P
    What you're contemplating is a "Brute Force Attack", which is probably futile. Most modules only allow a set number of incorrect attempts at security access (most typically 3), after which they go into a "lock" mode, where they will reject ALL security access codes, even correct ones, until "lock time" expires, and lock time only counts down with the ignition on...

    -Uwe-
    Ceterum censeo, delenda est Daesh.

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  8. #26
    Ross-Tech Employee Dana's Avatar
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    Right, we deal with this frequently in UDS Airbag modules but Advanced Measuring Group Security Access: Number of invalid keys needs to be 0 before another Login is accepted.

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  10. #27
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    You get a "time out seed" message after 3 attempts. Haven't yet tried a code, if rejected using the known good code and it being accepted. Then trying the next code.

    Not that I'm going to do this - it is almost pointless with 9000+ possibilities
    Hopefully someone will be able to help in time

  11. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xpower View Post
    You get a "time out seed" message after 3 attempts. Haven't yet tried a code, if rejected using the known good code and it being accepted. Then trying the next code.

    Not that I'm going to do this - it is almost pointless with 9000+ possibilities
    Hopefully someone will be able to help in time

    Xpower: Don't get me wrong, but your attempts to find the illusive security code appears to be ..well......... quite an obsession (no offense intended). You must really, really want to fix the "Ice warning" message on the instrument cluster!!

    Given that the most important part of any problem solving conundrum is the outcome (not the process), may I invite you to don your (deBono) "white-hat" and explore another approach? On a forum such as this, it's probably verging on heresy, but have you considered implementing a physical fix, instead of a VCDS solution?


    It really depends on how much of a hassle the ice warning message is (down here, our temperatures don't get that low for the warning to be a nuisance). But it is possible (at least in theory) to insert a variable resistor (with a switch -if you want) into the ambient temperature sensor circuit so as to "trick" the instrument panel into thinking that the temperature is higher. Of course doing this will also alter the temperature reading on the MDF, but if this isn't a problem for you, then it just might provide an alternative fix- I think

    Here's what I had in mind



    The picture shows the wiring arrangement for the ambient temperature sensor. I've included in the picture, the new variable resistor and (if you want) a switch that either engages, or by-passes the fix - for the summer period when the ice warning is not a problem.

    So here's the theory - it's usual for VW's temperature sensors to have what's known as a "negative temperature coefficient", which means that as temperature drops, the resistance of the sender increases. For "ice warning" conditions, the resistance of the sensor will be higher than the resistance at summer time temperatures. So what you need to do is to lower this resistance. The way to do this is to add another resistor "in parallel" with the sender (as shown in the picture).

    You may already know (my apology if you do) but if two resistors are connected in parallel (R1 and R2, say), the formula for the resulting resistance is Total Resistance = R1*R2/(R1 + R2) . For example if R1 and R2 have the same value, then the total resistance is half the value of R1 (or R2) - This is all the maths that I want to include in this reply, but hopefully this makes sense and hopefully, you can see how adding another resistor in parallel with G17 lowers the overall resistance of the sensor

    Using the above as an introduction, here's a possible alternative way for solving the ice warning problem:
    1.Locate G17 - I believe that the ambient temperature sensor is physically located behind the front bumper, just to the right of the licence plate
    2.Disconnect G17 from the connector (T2ca in the WD) and measure its resistance (using a multi-meter) when the temperature is cold
    3.Confirm my negative temperature coefficient assumption by warming-up the sensor (with your hands) - the resistance should drop. (note: if the sensor has a positive temp coefficient, the variable resistor should be connected in series with the sensor)
    4.Buy yourself a good quality variable resistor (preferably multi-turn) at about 4 to 10 times the measured resistance and wire it as shown in my circuit above (add the switch if you want - or wire the new resistor via a connector, so that it can be unplugged in summer). Only a low power variable resistor is needed (perhaps 1/2 to 1 Watt)
    5.With the new resistor attached, vary the slider and have someone inside the car tell you when the ambient temperature reading on the MFA has risen sufficiently to avoid the ice warning.
    6. Place a dob of glue on the slider mechanism, so that it won't move with the car's vibrations. Make sure all the new components are secured
    7. Go inside and pour yourself a large glass of single malt scotch (with ice from outside your house) for a job well done!

    Of course, if all this seems like more trouble than it's worth, then just ignore my suggestion!!

    Don

    PS: Question for RT (hopefully asked tactfully): The control module's proclivity to "spit-the-dummy" after the 3rd unsuccessful attempt, appears to have been resolved (in a fashion) in the "other cable" (won't name it, but it needs a correct security code to launch the "login finder" application). Given the importance of security codes to changing programmable parameters in the modules and the proliferation of codes as per Sebastian's reply above, does RT foresee a similar application (to login finder) in their cable in the fullness of time?
    Last edited by DV52; 03-01-2016 at 06:31 PM.
    VW Golf MkVII (103TSI) my13

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  13. #29
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    How about the smartest guy in the room just come up with a valid code? Pretty please? With sugar on top?

  14. #30
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    DoN I appreciate your detailed reply, for me I am not looking at the ice warning message as 4 deg c is ok for me.
    I am looking at setting the instrument cluster to be back lit all the time.

    In previous MQB platforms this could be done in 2 ways:
    1) change the values in the instrument cluster, either the "dimming characteristic curve day" values
    or the "internal phototransistor" values.

    2) in the 09 module you could active running lights all the time, this would be interior illuminations
    (including instruments), tail lights, number plate lights & DRL's.

    On the 2016 MQB platform VAG seems to have made a change, so number 2 no longer works.
    On my car if you switch the side lights on (some call them park lights), the instruments are NOT backlit, they only come on when the headlights are on.

    Original MQB
    Light switch in off position - instruments variable backlight (from maximum brightness to unlit
    depending on light conditions)
    Light switch in side light position - instruments permanently lit with variable backlight for extremely
    bright conditions
    Light switch in headlight position - instruments permanently lit with variable backlight for extremely
    bright conditions

    2016 MQB
    Light switch in off position - instruments variable backlight (from maximum brightness to unlit
    depending on light conditions)
    Light switch in side light position - instruments variable backlight (from maximum brightness to
    unlit depending on light conditions)
    Light switch in headlight position - instruments permanently lit with variable backlight for extremely
    bright conditions

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