WTF Emissions DELETES! The smelly Garbage can dumped on Motorsports! WTF

Jack@European_Parts · Apr 1, 2017

Sure innovation and clean proper running engines sounds great, but I wouldn't presume to tell you how to tune/repair/modify your own vehicle (at least not without you asking for my opinion), whether or not you or anyone else thinks it is or 'should' be illegal is irrelevant.

As long as the original manufacturer followed the rules or laws in place, what an individual owner does after the fact is irrelevant, in my opinion.

If the government really wanted to go after those with or who sell 'illegal' modifications, then I'm sure they can and would do so.

All this beside the fact, what passes for legal or 'illegal' changes every day.

If only our government and politicians would obey the laws.

In summary, what anyone does with their own private property, is up to them and we don't need any more of a nanny government than we already have, or others who want to force their opinion or desires upon anyone else or get into someone else's personal affairs.

As stated earlier, if anyone has a grievance against some company/product or person(s) they are welcome to file a formal complaint with the applicable company and/or government agency.

I try to leave the internet chest-beating to those with bigger chests.

edit: also wanted to say, that I would include any dealer/repair/whomever with the original manufacturer responsibility to not intentionally deceive a customer regarding any potentially illegal modifications, but if the owner requests and wants a particular component or modification, then that is when the personal accountability thing happens.

Seems like a "wantonly" angle to me.

Your opinion while I respect it isn't a lawful standing & the government when it can does, has and will go after the AFT for this.
Personal affairs are no longer personal when they encroach on another's well being or possible safety.
Sometimes it's ok to stand up for the little guy, even with a small chest, with an attitude that you exhibit, "says let the other guy do it", is why the country stagnates.

That's were I disagree D- because a nation without laws, is not a nation. The problem is enforcement and laws being written are to complicated or in some cases too restrictive with a hidden agenda.
There is nothing wrong with setting goal requirements that are technologically reasonable.
We know it really isnt about making the vehicles to complicated or expensive because people had no problem spending much more money for SUV vehicles or high hp right from the oem.

To that end when cars which are modified outside the ability to perform safely such as a speed limiter and cause the guy in the on coming lane to die, is pretty as I stated & are........ "Wonton!"

D-Dub · Apr 3, 2017

Jack@European_Parts said:
To that end when cars which are modified outside the ability to perform safely such as a speed limiter and cause the guy in the on coming lane to die, is pretty as I stated & are........ "Wonton!"

Well to that end, idiots are going to be idiots and no amount of laws or chest beating are going to stop them.

Yes I recognize that, unfortunately that it can mean collateral damage.

It is the same for nearly all types of technology and facets of life.

<insert object of your opinion here> don't kill people, people kill people.

Jack@European_Parts · Apr 3, 2017

Well to that end, idiots are going to be idiots and no amount of laws or chest beating are going to stop them.

Yes I recognize that, unfortunately that it can mean collateral damage.

It is the same for nearly all types of technology and facets of life.

< insert object of your opinion here> don't kill people, people kill people.

Still not a justifiable reason to stand in the corner & while the public get fisted.

It's like denying a holocaust......keep telling yourself that, I'll show you people getting killed.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2001/feb/17/johnezard

D-Dub · Apr 3, 2017

I just believe there are higher priority objectives to attend to.

You know, like making america great again.

Uwe · Apr 3, 2017

Jack@European_Parts said:
Still not a justifiable reason to stand in the corner & while the public get fisted.
It's like denying a holocaust......keep telling yourself that, I'll show you people getting killed.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2001/feb/17/johnezard

How exactly is the public getting "fisted" by the what, 1% of cars (tops!) that might get "tuned"?

If there were a a whole lot of daily-driver vehicles that were doing this, the EPA would probably do something about it. In fact, I believe they have...

But even that is still no holocaust.

Jack@European_Parts · Apr 3, 2017

How exactly is the public getting "fisted" by the what, 1% of cars (tops!) that might get "tuned"?

If there were a a whole lot of daily-driver vehicles that were doing this, the EPA would probably do something about it. In fact, I believe they have...

But even that is still no holocaust.

http://jalopnik.com/just-25-percent-of-cars-cause-90-percent-of-pollution-1703069254

I consider cars that have CATs deleted and the far more rich fuel mixture strategies for gas cars, a greater cause of pollution than 1%.

The market has grown to an alarming level for aftermarket delete physical and electronic devices...

I am not against real tuning........I am against dirty deliberate modification and the deployment of deleting parts that hurt our industry from getting valid repair work or interrupting our process to conduct repairs such as with VCDS by failing to display a DTC stack and that hurt that environment.

That's the key word Uwe " Tuned " the cars I site in this thread are not the 1% of " Tuned " cars........ they are the hacked ones! :cool:

D-Dub · Apr 3, 2017

Jack@European_Parts said:
I am not against real tuning........I am against dirty deliberate modification and the deployment of deleting parts that hurt our industry from getting valid repair work or interrupting our process to conduct repairs such as with VCDS by failing to display a DTC stack and that hurt that environment.

I do not disagree with this statement.

But as stated previously, as long as the owner knowingly accepts the consequences of making said changes, I still do not think it is as big a deal as other much larger societal issues, which also go unaddressed or inadequately addressed.

But I do understand your fervor, being an industry professional and more directly affected than others (even though I agree pollution does affect everyone).

:beer:

Jack@European_Parts · Apr 3, 2017

http://www.autonews.com/article/201...meet-sizzling-demand-for-performance-vehicles

Consumers may consistently rank fuel economy near the top of their wish lists when seeking out a new vehicle, but buyers clearly prioritize performance, too.

With consumers being false advertised too, such as Unitronic clearly does in their sales advertisements by implying fuel MPG and that it is ok to drive on the public streets/highways is all disingenuous bullshit.......... the consumer is in fact being tricked into the path of that choice you site.

But as stated previously, as long as the owner knowingly accepts the consequences of making said changes, I still do not think it is as big a deal as other much larger societal issues, which also go unaddressed or inadequately addressed

Not the case when a second owner gets the car or a scumbag used car dealer uses this method to profit and the new consumer has been screwed and he doesn't even know it yet when the MIL does or doesn't come on and the DTC stack is corrupted.

Let me give you a real life example..........
Cats as scrap have rare metals and are valuable for cash right?
Auctions have thousands of cars and some guy in the auction shop gets a bright idea using these tunes to hack out the Cats of almost every car in the auction and programs the cars with these defeats that these hacks make. He then welds in straight pipes or even installs no fouler's.
He than takes the cats to the dump for cash.
The cars get sold to unsuspecting dealers green light and go off to be retailed all over the country.

Meanwhile all these people got screwed because this shit exists and the cars run dirty.

D-Dub · Apr 3, 2017

Well that is out and out fraud.

There is also the example of cat theft, which in some regions is pretty high.. I've seen articles documenting that accomplished thieves can cut out a cat in 30 seconds or less. (brings new meaning to gone in 60 seconds) Sometimes they will weld a straight pipe in replacement to avoid bringing notice to themselves, and leaving the owner unknowing until someone notices during a vehicle service.

as far as used cars, if seller is aware of non-standard components and or modifications, then I submit they have the responsibility to ensure successive owners are also aware and accept responsibility of said modifications.

That said, I understand that unscrupulous things happen.

Buyer beware.

In any case, banning the modifications outright is the same argument used against gun owners and torrent users, etc.

Should zip files be banned because pirated software is almost always zipped up?

Should mp3 (and every other audio format) files be banned because every mp3 is a (potentially) unlawful copy of the original analog sound?

Steak knives are deadly weapons, yet I don't see anyone up in arms about banning those ?

How many people are beat with a baseball bat or similar instrument every year, yet that will never be banned.

Jack@European_Parts · Apr 3, 2017

Well that is out and out fraud.

There is also the example of cat theft, which in some regions is pretty high.. I've seen articles documenting that accomplished thieves can cut out a cat in 30 seconds or less. (brings new meaning to gone in 60 seconds) Sometimes they will weld a straight pipe in replacement to avoid bringing notice to themselves, and leaving the owner unknowing until someone notices during a vehicle service.

as far as used cars, if seller is aware of non-standard components and or modifications, then I submit they have the responsibility to ensure successive owners are also aware and accept responsibility of said modifications.

That said, I understand that unscrupulous things happen.

Buyer beware.

In any case, banning the modifications outright is the same argument used against gun owners and torrent users, etc.

Should zip files be banned because pirated software is almost always zipped up?

Should mp3 (and every other audio format) files be banned because every mp3 is a (potentially) unlawful copy of the original analog sound?

Steak knives are deadly weapons, yet I don't see anyone up in arms about banning those ?

How many people are beat with a baseball bat or similar instrument every year, yet that will never be banned.

The above examples are just not valid comparisons or something I rationalize ...........
Intent is intent.........
It isn't buyer beware when it comes to false advertising and fraud.
It's against the law and as a licensed repair facility I can't deviate from that high road path of the law or regulations which are defined for what is a qualified repair & I am required to obey.
I never said modification should be banned outright.....you are.

Setting readiness monitors to "always ready", as Unitronic has been verified to perform, is in fact fraud and not by any means responsible for any performance increase, nor a justifiable act for off road use. It is only used to circumvent an emissions rule to false pass an emissions device.

vreihen · Apr 3, 2017

D-Dub · Apr 3, 2017

Jack@European_Parts said:
I never said modification should be banned outright.....you are.

... I've never suggested that they should, and is my mistake for thinking that is something you were for...

Setting readiness monitors to "always ready", as Unitronic has been verified to perform, is in fact fraud and not by any means responsible for any performance increase, nor a justifiable act for off road use. It is only used to circumvent an emissions rule to false pass an emissions device.

Well again, I do not disagree.

Unless it was explicitly requested by the owner.

You might say it is fraud against the government or the public or secondary owners. My opinion is /shrug. Emissions laws are different in different places.

I am fine with a lot of things, that that may or may not correspond to the straight and narrow of the law. As long as there is no deception between provider and recipient then my default opinion will typically be to not care a whole lot what goes on between consenting parties.

But I am thankful that there are professionals that do bear the high road and that don't and won't attempt to defraud their customers.

So thank you for your dedication to the craft, and the conversation.

Jack@European_Parts · Apr 3, 2017

This isn't about arguing Art and I respect D-Dubs opinion and objective, I just don't agree with some of it.....you are all to familiar with all readiness monitors being found half ass all ready in the blue TT for Jen ( Arts wife ) , & when it wouldn't pass NYS inspection after she bought it in CT.

Was funny when I found it because in VCDS VAG side it displayed as passed but in VCDS OBD2 mode it didn't, and in the VAG1551 it displayed nothing for ones or zeros.

That file was immediately saved and sent to Uwe and VAS_diagnose in Germany.

I am not making this stuff up because it's now not a few here and there......... this is "widespread"!

Jack@European_Parts · Apr 3, 2017

... I've never suggested that they should, and is my mistake for thinking that is something you were for...

thank you!

Well again, I do not disagree.

Unless it was explicitly requested by the owner.

You might say it is fraud against the government or the public or secondary owners. My opinion is /shrug. Emissions laws are different in different places.

CAA applies to all 50 states D- all states are required to conform to it and it is Federal Law.
Unitronic just does this...... customer doesn't have to ask.........verified on several applications and even stage 1.

I am fine with a lot of things, that that may or may not correspond to the straight and narrow of the law. As long as there is no deception between provider and recipient then my default opinion will typically be to not care a whole lot what goes on between consenting parties.

But I am thankful that there are professionals that do bear the high road and that don't and won't attempt to defraud their customers.

So thank you for your dedication to the craft, and the conversation.

Not something I am willing to ignore when it directly effects our industry & thank you again D- for your input........ :thanks:

.

See Art we don't need a moderator .......yet!

Uwe Wrote:

Did Ivan really think that VWVortex (which is owned by the Canadian company VerticalScope Inc) wouldn't collude with Unitronic Corporation Inc (another Canadian company) to remove these embarrassing questions?
http://forums.vwvortex.com/member.php?1309546-Ivan_TellaLie

"A publically traded company!"

VerticalScope Inc. develops and operates Websites, online communities, and forums in automotive, powersports, power equipment, sports, pets, and technology verticals. The company also provides advertising options on its Websites and social networks, e-newsletters, and mobile applications. VerticalScope Inc. was founded in 1999 and is headquartered in Toronto, Canada. As of July 28, 2015, VerticalScope Inc. operates as a subsidiary of Torstar Corporation.

Jack@European_Parts · Apr 4, 2017

Meh ........I tossed some logs on the fire, next will be some gas.

Wheels of justice turn slow, however, they do turn...........

Uwe · Apr 4, 2017

Jack@European_Parts said:
Meh ........I tossed some logs on the fire, next will be some gas.

Wheels of justice turn slow, however, they do turn...........

Be careful with pouring gas on a fire that's already lit! More than one person has gotten seriously burnt that way! :eek:

Jack@European_Parts · Apr 4, 2017

Be careful with pouring gas on a fire that's already lit! More than one person has gotten seriously burnt that way!

As expected......... :cool:

All I can say is I didn't draw first blood, nor fire........... until fired upon!

vreihen · Apr 4, 2017

Jack@European_Parts said:
All I can say is I didn't draw first blood, nor fire........... until fired upon!

I wonder if I can trademark it?????

Jack@European_Parts · Apr 4, 2017

I don't start fights, I finish them.........

Raiden Wins Fatality.....

Jack@European_Parts · Jun 26, 2017

The clock soon runs out.........the fatal "SHOT" ...........a lust for blood........the final act..........a deadly strike!.........

!THE THREAT IS REAL!

Coming to a theater near you............. :popcorn:

NostraJackAss Soon to Make Checkmate!

WTF Emissions DELETES! The smelly Garbage can dumped on Motorsports! WTF

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