Security access for different modules_finding it out

   #1  

golfi_vend

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Hi

I was wondering how the security access is found. Probably surfing through a lot of documentation and maybe even reverse engineering of software.
But how healthy or unhealthy is to make a application that will try every input from 0 to 99999. Manually trying all these is a lot of time consuming, but via script..... Maybe not so.

But now the question. Is it healthy, do modules have a lock down (except immobiliser) when wrong code is inputted?
 
   #2  

Uwe

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Most modules will lock you out after a few incorrect attempts. Of course the lock time will eventually expire (typically counted only with Terminal 15 active), so you won't be locked out forever, but it's enough to make a brute-force attack impractical.

-Uwe-
 
   #3  

Spacewalker

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There is a sofware which can find a login via Brute-Force, but you need to know one working login .
Also - you can find a login manually in VAS help files
Most of options are not "adjustable" even if you know Security Code
 
   #4  

golfi_vend

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Does this also mean for adaption channels that show security access required? I mean shows sec.access required and after you input it, still won't let change?
 
   #5  

Sebastian

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A control module can have anywhere between 0 and a gazillion possible security access codes (or logins for that matter). The exact number is determined by the vehicle manufacturers specifications, that are then sent to the control module supplier and implemented during development. A code can do anything between enabling access to special diagnostic modes (like flashing) or adaptation channels, coding etc. In addition some codes only work when you're actually in special modes, none of these are usually relevant for vehicle repair related functions.

I've been running brute force scenarios similar to what spacewalker has described for a few years and even though the process comes up with numbers it doesn't mean you can make much sense from those numbers. What it boils down to, if you have adaptation channels that are blocked - that's a dead giveaway for a function behind a certain code. However, what if the module doesn't do adaptation at all or if there are no obvious changes once you enter a code? As I wrote, codes aren't all about enabling functions indirectly (i.e. enter code, then access function XYZ). Sometime the code itself will switch something on/off (similar to older cruise control activation/deactivation). That can be everything from developer messages on the CAN through a forced boot loader mode - neither of those are actually relevant for our purposes. That said, the different diagnostic modes complicate the situation. Meaning one needs to run a brute force multiple times, at least once for each mode. I have come across at least one case where codes where designed to be entered one after another, if you did things in the wrong order follow up codes would be rejected. Another complication to the brute force concept.

In opposite to what Uwe wrote, my practice for the last 10 years was to use a brute force process for some situations but it was certainly not the only way to get the necessary codes. There are only so many ways this can be done, somebody or something spilling the beans is in my opinion the most effective way because it reduces the amount of guessing and time wasted.


The real question to me is, are codes often overrated? Ok, with the latest BCMs you won't get far w/o the proper codes. But in general for how much stuff do you really need codes? Do we have codes for most of these things available? Just because VCDS doesn't display things doesn't mean we don't have them. Either we are still in a testing process or we deem those codes to be not relevant for vehicle repairs etc. - some of those are strictly too dangerous for everybody and his brother to play with. After all, there's a reason why VW/Audi specifies them as secret/security codes. :)


P.S.: If you're worried about this subject, you better don't read up on SWaP. :p
 
   #6  

ineedbeer

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So what the heck is SWaP? (Googling didn't return anything)

Where do I get this software to try and brute force a security code and how risky would it be to try? (Looking for ABS security code to enable Auto Hold in an A3 8V, US).

I have posted an auto-scan if you look at my recent posts. Also I've mapped adaptations for all modules in my car - would you guys be interested in a copy or do you already have what you need for this car? Just let me know where to send it if it would be useful.
 
   #7  

Uwe

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SWaP stands for SoftWare as a Product.

I think it basically means the software for a function is already in the car, but you have to buy a "key" to use it.

-Uwe-
 
   #8  

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In addition some codes only work when you're actually in special modes, none of these are usually relevant for vehicle repair related functions.

I strongly disagree........It appears hidden modes are needed to conduct emissions related repairs.........


SWaP stands for SoftWare as a Product.

I think it basically means the software for a function is already in the car, but you have to buy a "key" to use it.

-Uwe-

I thought it stood for Spit While At PARK.........four finger rules evens, verse not yet odds for knuckle ball.

The more you know.........
 
   #9  

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I need security access code to engine module to enable force stationary dpf regeneration. Unfortunately vcds doesn't prompt this code anymore. I have tried 12233 with no joy. Why vcds doesn't show these anymore. Please help.
 
   #10  

Uwe

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I need security access code to engine module to enable force stationary dpf regeneration. Unfortunately vcds doesn't prompt this code anymore. I have tried 12233 with no joy. Why vcds doesn't show these anymore. Please help.
Please post an Auto-Scan so people can see what ECU you have.

-Uwe-
 
   #11  

jocker01

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I'm sorry I posted reply from the tablet where I had no access to the scan. Please find auto-scan attached.
Regards
Jocker01

Code:
Thursday,31,December,2015,18:21:49:54825
VCDS -- Windows Based VAG/VAS Emulator Running on Windows 7 x86
VCDS Version: 15.7.3.0
Data version: 20151216
www.Ross-Tech.com


VIN: WAUZZZ8P87A061990   License Plate: A3READING
Mileage: 179570km-111579mi   Repair Order: 



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Chassis Type: 8P (1K0)
Scan: 01 03 08 09 15 16 17 19 25 42 44 46 47 52 55 56 7D

VIN: WAUZZZ8P87A061990   Mileage: 179570km-111579miles

00-Steering Angle Sensor -- Status: OK 0000
01-Engine -- Status: Malfunction 0010
03-ABS Brakes -- Status: OK 0000
08-Auto HVAC -- Status: Malfunction 0010
09-Cent. Elect. -- Status: Malfunction 0010
15-Airbags -- Status: OK 0000
16-Steering wheel -- Status: OK 0000
17-Instruments -- Status: OK 0000
19-CAN Gateway -- Status: Malfunction 0010
25-Immobilizer -- Status: OK 0000
42-Door Elect, Driver -- Status: Malfunction 0010
44-Steering Assist -- Status: OK 0000
46-Central Conv. -- Status: Malfunction 0010
47-Sound System -- Status: OK 0000
52-Door Elect, Pass. -- Status: Malfunction 0010
55-Headlight Range -- Status: OK 0000
56-Radio -- Status: Cannot be reached 1100
7D-Aux. Heat -- Status: Malfunction 0010
 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 01: Engine        Labels: 03G-906-018-BMN.clb
   Part No SW: 03G 906 018 DN    HW: 03G 906 018 DN
   Component: R4 2.0l PPD1.2 G    4350  
   Revision: --H22---    Serial number: AUX7Z0F7FNN006
   Coding: 0000072
   Shop #: WSC 01158 210 184362
   VCID: 74E7303B176D069E65-8020

2 Faults Found:
008194 - Particulate Trap Bank 1 
               P2002 - 006 - Efficiency Below Threshold - MIL ON
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 11100001
                    Fault Priority: 5
                    Fault Frequency: 3
                    Reset counter: 40
                    Mileage: 179577 km
                    Time Indication: 0
                    Date: 2015.12.23
                    Time: 15:20:17

             Freeze Frame:
                    RPM: 2848 /min
                    Torque: 40.0 Nm
                    Speed: 0.0 km/h
                    (no units): 1.0
                    Pressure: 0.0 mbar
                    Lambda: 195.9 %
                    Time: 4492.8 s

008194 - Particulate Trap Bank 1 
               P2002 - 006 - Efficiency Below Threshold - MIL ON
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 11100001
                    Fault Priority: 5
                    Fault Frequency: 3
                    Reset counter: 40
                    Mileage: 179577 km
                    Time Indication: 0
                    Date: 2015.12.23
                    Time: 15:20:17

             Freeze Frame:
                    RPM: 2848 /min
                    Torque: 40.0 Nm
                    Speed: 0.0 km/h
                    (no units): 1.0
                    Lambda: 195.9 %
                    Pressure: 0.0 mbar
                    Time: 4492.8 s

Readiness: N/A

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 03: ABS Brakes        Labels: 1K0-907-379-MK60-F.lbl
   Part No SW: 1K0 907 379 AC    HW: 1K0 907 379 AC
   Component: ESP FRONT MK60      0101  
   Revision: 00H11001    
   Coding: 0023170
   Shop #: WSC 06314 000 00000
   VCID: 73E53327126301A67C-8026

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 08: Auto HVAC        Labels: 8P0-820-043.lbl
   Part No SW: 8P0 820 043 M    HW: 8P0 820 043 M
   Component: KlimavollautomatH18 0300  
   Revision: 371645      Serial number: 8P0820043M    
   Shop #: WSC 06314 000 00000
   VCID: 3663CA334191548E9B-8062

1 Fault Found:
00483 - Control Module for Auxiliary Air Heater 
            013 - Check DTC Memory
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 01101101
                    Fault Priority: 3
                    Fault Frequency: 1
                    Reset counter: 202
                    Mileage: 178816 km
                    Time Indication: 0
                    Date: 2015.11.28
                    Time: 08:10:33

             Freeze Frame:
                        ON


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 09: Cent. Elect.        Labels: 8P0-907-279-23-H.lbl
   Part No SW: 8P0 907 279 F    HW: 8P0 907 279 F
   Component: Bordnetz-SG     H43 1201  
   Revision: 00H43000    Serial number: 00000006067092
   Coding: 118A4F07A214100000000000000000000008EE175A0500
   Shop #: WSC 06314 000 08192
   VCID: 408FACEB1355EA3E31-8014

   Subsystem 1 - Part No: 8P2 955 119 E  Labels: 1KX-955-119.CLB
   Component: Wischer AU350   H01 0130  
   Coding: 00062736
   Shop #: WSC 06314  

1 Fault Found:
00987 - Lamp for Brake Light; Left (M9) 
            012 - Electrical Fault in Circuit - Intermittent
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 00101100
                    Fault Priority: 1
                    Fault Frequency: 1
                    Reset counter: 234
                    Mileage: 178038 km
                    Time Indication: 0
                    Date: 2015.10.07
                    Time: 23:32:00

             Freeze Frame:
                        ON
                    Voltage: 14.25 V
                        ON
                        ON
                        OFF
                        OFF
                        ON


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 15: Airbags        Labels: 8P0-959-655-94.lbl
   Part No SW: 8P0 959 655 H    HW: 8P0 959 655 H
   Component:    Airbag 9.41  H12 3720  
   Revision: 91H12372    Serial number: 0037W0G06N23  
   Coding: 0071612
   Shop #: WSC 06314 000 00000
   VCID: 479DB7F7367BDD06F0-8012

   Subsystem 1 - Serial number: 63328RB4017865F9T

   Subsystem 2 - Serial number: 63428RB40174F1AFW

   Subsystem 3 - Serial number: 63528RB4017871E3L

   Subsystem 4 - Serial number: 63628RB40174EC56U

   Subsystem 5 - Serial number: 63729RB401849EA8.

   Subsystem 6 - Serial number: 63829RB401849EBE2

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 16: Steering wheel        Labels: 1K0-953-549-MY8.lbl
   Part No SW: 1K0 953 549 AH    HW: 1K0 953 549 AH
   Component: J0527           034 0070  
   Coding: 0000042
   Shop #: WSC 01211 010 01254
   VCID: 78FF040B0B0562FE49-802C

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 17: Instruments        Labels: 8P0-920-xxx-17-MY7.lbl
   Part No SW: 8P0 920 981 F    HW: 8P0 920 981 F
   Component: KOMBIINSTR. VDO H18 0560  
   Revision: D0H18002    Serial number: 2247F002006020
   Coding: 0004418
   Shop #: WSC 01158 210 184362
   VCID: 3B75DB077AB389E664-806E

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 19: CAN Gateway        Labels: 1K0-907-530-V2.clb
   Part No SW: 1K0 907 530 J    HW: 1K0 907 951 
   Component: J533__Gateway   H12 0160  
   Revision:   H12       Serial number: 3200106728819C
   Coding: 7D0F0B4207000101
   Shop #: WSC 06314 000 00000
   VCID: 2E53E253B9C16C4ED3-807A

1 Fault Found:
01304 - Radio 
            004 - No Signal/Communication
             Freeze Frame:
                    Fault Status: 01100100
                    Fault Priority: 2
                    Fault Frequency: 1
                    Reset counter: 120
                    Mileage: 177543 km
                    Time Indication: 0
                    Date: 2015.09.16
                    Time: 11:54:03


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 25: Immobilizer        Labels: 1K0-920-xxx-25.clb
   Part No SW: 8P0 920 981 F    HW: 8P0 920 981 F
   Component: KOMBIINSTR. VDO H18 0560  
   Revision: D0H18002    Serial number: AUX7Z0F7FNN006
   Shop #: WSC 00000 000 00000
   VCID: 3B75DB077AB389E664-806E

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 42: Door Elect, Driver        Labels: 8P0-959-801-MIN2.lbl
   Part No: 8P0 959 801 H
   Component: Tuer-SG         020 0090  
   Coding: 0000560
   Shop #: WSC 06314 000 00000
   VCID: 408FACEB1355EA3E31-8014

1 Fault Found:
00932 - Electric Window Motor; Drivers Side (V147) 
            005 - No or Incorrect Basic Setting / Adaptation - Intermittent

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 44: Steering Assist        Labels: 1Kx-909-14x-44.clb
   Part No: 1K2 909 144 L
   Component: EPS_ZFLS Kl.079 H07 1806  
   Shop #: WSC 02069 000 90108
   VCID: 3561CD3F5C975F9692-8060

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 46: Central Conv.        Labels: 8P0-959-433.lbl
   Part No: 8P0 959 433 C
   Component:    KSG          H04 0050  
   Coding: 198000186D288505489AC63300
   Shop #: WSC 06314 000 00000
   VCID: 3C77D81B7FBD8EDE6D-8068

   Subsystem 1 - Part No: 1K0 951 605 C
   Component: LIN BACKUP HORN H03 1301

   Subsystem 2 - Part No: 1K0 907 719 C
   Component: Neigungssensor  005 0003

   Subsystem 3 - Part No: 8P0 951 177 
   Component: Innenraumueberw.H04 0020

1 Fault Found:
00332 - Control Circuit for Tank Flap 
            007 - Short to Ground

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 47: Sound System        Labels: 8Px-035-382.lbl
   Part No SW: 8P3 035 382     HW: 8P3 035 382 
   Component: AB2 SUBWOOFERBOXH27 0160  
   Revision: 00005       Serial number: 30659635480384
   Shop #: WSC 00000 000 00000
   VCID: 70EF3C2B63753ABE81-8024

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 52: Door Elect, Pass.        Labels: 8P0-959-802-MIN2.lbl
   Part No: 8P0 959 802 H
   Component: Tuer-SG         020 0090  
   Coding: 0000560
   Shop #: WSC 06314 000 00000
   VCID: 4189A9EF185FE3363E-8014

1 Fault Found:
00933 - Electric Window Motor; Passenger Side (V148) 
            005 - No or Incorrect Basic Setting / Adaptation - Intermittent

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 55: Headlight Range        Labels: 8P0-907-357.lbl
   Part No: 8P0 907 357 F
   Component: Dynamische LWR  H02 0010  
   Revision: 00000001    Serial number:               
   Coding: 0000012
   Shop #: WSC 06314 000 00000
   VCID: 3D71D51F64A787D65A-8068

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 56: Radio
Cannot be reached

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 7D: Aux. Heat        Labels: 1K0-963-235.lbl
   Part No SW: 1K0 963 235 E    HW: 1K0 963 235 E
   Component: PTC-Element         0404  
   Revision: 00800000    Serial number:               
   Shop #: WSC 00000 000 00000
   VCID: 2D51E55FB4C71756EA-8078

1 Fault Found:
00361 - Heater Element for Auxiliary Heater (Z35) 
            014 - Defective

End-------------------------(Elapsed Time: 01:55)--------------------------
 
   #12  

NEtech

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Try [Engine-01] > [Coding II-11] there should come a pop up window.
 
   #14  

Jack@European_Parts

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Feel free to back that claim up with an example.

Sebastian why have you taken so long to call this one out........ are you alone for New Years?

Than why after security logins are the emissions tests or other tests now able to be run for many controllers........... or the fact that the block value or in basics magically now appear after a login?


Example of its existence already in documented VCDS repair process for over a decade.

ESP/ABS codification ( platform A6 or All-Road )

In order to code an ESP module a login is needed........ then the config.

Since the ESP/ABS are related for emissions and will pend a fault in 0x01 further triggering an MIL .....I believe this proves this.

Not going to give you want you want though........without security access.:p

The same is seen in later cars, however, with the additional need for the other mode, unless knowing the entire correct computed code, and then after this, an additional login is needed again in the returned to standard mode; & within the same session, to complete the other adaptions, or the coding will return to ZERO.
 
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   #15  

jocker01

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@Netech.
thanks for that! I wouldn't write here if this pop up appeared.
Regards
Jocker01
 
   #16  

NEtech

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thanks for that! I wouldn't write here if this pop up appeared.
I am sorry, how should I predict what you have tried ?
I was trying to help, I had the impression by reading your question, that you where searching/asking for [Secure access-16] value!
But that is not used for particulate filter regeneration for your engine.
Please use the button [Coding II-11] (or similar I don't have the exact text) and tell if there are no help balloon popping up ?
Else we have to fix that.
The number to enter for regeneration is: 21295

Is [Secure access-16] value: 12233 accepted ?
 
   #17  

jocker01

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@NEtech
The only pop up which I've seen was about matching ECU to the car with PIN from the donor car.
I used 21295 in Coding II but this does not let me to do stationary regeneration. Value 12233 wasn't accepted :(
At the end we've done dynamic regen and managed to drop down from 196% to 9% of soot load.

What will be the issue that pop up never appeared?

Regards
Jocker01
 
   #18  

NEtech

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The only pop up which I've seen was about matching ECU to the car with PIN from the donor car.
Yes that is current pop-up help for [Secure access-16]

I used 21295 in Coding II but this does not let me to do stationary regeneration. Value 12233 wasn't accepted :(
There can be different things why and access value does not work, that is not what we are discussing right now.
Was the value 12233 accepted in [Secure access-16] ?

What will be the issue that pop up never appeared?
Make an screen shot, say 10 sec. after you pressed button [Coding II-11] (and moved your cursor) when connected to your car. And show it here (how to post picture).

At the end we've done dynamic regen and managed to drop down from 196% to 9% of soot load
Strange I have newer seen above 100%, are you sure soot load showed 196% ?
 
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   #19  

jocker01

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@NETech
Security access was not granted after value 12233, key invalid.
I don't have chance to do the screen shot as car is already gone.
Regarding the soot level I got very surprised too!
I started dynamic regen and soot level was dropping nicely. Temp after dpf was 700C.
Regen was successful after all.
Regards
Jocker01
 
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