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Thread: GM, Ford, And Others Exploiting DMCA to Make Working on Your Own Car Illegal!

  1. #11
    Benevolent Dictator Uwe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sebastian View Post
    Tuning/flashing ECM software, the "new" software is always based on an original one with (usually) nothing but modified maps.
    Right, but car manufacturer granted the owner of the car an implicit license to USE that software when he bought the car. So if the car's owner wishes to modify that software himself, strictly for his own purposes, I don't see how that runs afoul of copyright. Now if a tuner makes and SELLS modified copies, I could see where that might be problematic.

    Anyway, I don't think this will fly, at least not in the US.

    -Uwe-
    Ceterum censeo, delenda est Daesh.

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  3. #12
    Ross-Tech Employee Sebastian's Avatar
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    Point taken, what about current models which need valid signatures so one can even flash a new file? here that could be considered breaking/circumventing copy protection mechanism and would therefor be punishable.
    Sebastian @ Ross-Tech.com // VCDS Rookie since 2003

    »Nichts erweitert das eigene Wissen mehr,
    als die Meinung eines Andersdenkenden.«

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  5. #13
    Verified VCDS User roth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sebastian View Post
    Point taken, what about current models which need valid signatures so one can even flash a new file? here that could be considered breaking/circumventing copy protection mechanism and would therefor be punishable.
    Since when doing anything to your property is considered breaking/circumventing? What if I bought a car and want to do just that because it is my hobby? Did I sign any statement during the purchase stating I cannot do that?

    BR, Andy.
    Skype ag6167

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  7. #14
    Ross-Tech Employee Jef's Avatar
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    Because locking things up always works.

    09-f9-11-02-9d-74-e3-5b-d8-41-56-c5-63-56-88-c0
    Jef
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  9. #15
    NostraJackAss Jack@European_Parts's Avatar
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    The keywords are "flash some other software" as well as "safety and liability".

    Tuning/flashing ECM software, the "new" software is always based on an original one with (usually) nothing but modified maps. So that modification of sb. else's work can IMO be looked at as a copyright violation. Now if tuners would actually write ALL the ECM software, from scratch or base their work on an open source solution (like it's done with Android ROMs) this becomes a different scenario.

    As for safety and liability, does anyone here actually think some 3rd party can come up with an as well tested and thought through ESP or Airbag software which is then not just generic enough to be installed in all controllers out there but also all vehicle models and possible crash scenarios?


    I believe that is a poor interpretation Sebastian.

    The original can be taken and modified/changed legally.........as long as not an exact copy being used, and credit is given to the original creator.
    It is usually a good idea to get permission, however, I have not seen a case where an OEM has litigated this for a modification of work.
    If anyone had rights claims it would be the author of origin, however, he would have to prove the infringement use.

    It is the tuner now that has modified said copyright can not claim a copyright going forward, because he is not the original creator of the writing.
    Courts usually based on history, don't allow for a ruling in the request when trying to make such a claim.
    However, you see in tunings that they have copyrighted it......or patented a process.


    Now what would be really interesting is..........
    The OEM reporting to a governing agency requesting enforcement of the manipulation of emissions monitors, and pursuing the tuner for intentional SMOG device defeats to circumvent a SMOG test.
    Then suing the tuner for damages if incurred prompting a warranty which was granted, because of deceptive tactics to only make the OEM believe they were responsible.
    IE Flash counter resets or claiming software doesn't void a warranty of power train.
    IE Offering to flash a controller to stock to purport/facilitate as conduit to assist in the fraud.

    Big difference changing maps, and than changing the diagnostic areas to delete a mandatory emissions device or OBD2 codes...... while in fact using the OBD2 port to do so..........and on a hard plated car for the street as an advertisement.
    " Just drive to our dealer and get flashed and drive home." Now that implies deception and clearly promotes the use of said illegal SMOG manipulated products on the public road.

    I have been noticing a change where tuners are not signing their name as much or adding such a rat out to their door for accreditation.
    European Parts Emporium/Performance / Immobilizer Solutions LLC
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  10. #16
    FoRT jyoung8607's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uwe View Post
    Right, but car manufacturer granted the owner of the car an implicit license to USE that software when he bought the car. So if the car's owner wishes to modify that software himself, strictly for his own purposes, I don't see how that runs afoul of copyright.
    It doesn't fall afoul of the original copyright laws. You're not really copying it, except in the hair-splitting sense of having a duplicate on your computer while you're tuning. You're modifying it. It's no different from making notes or highlighting in a paper textbook. However, as part of the DMCA, there's a new prohibition against circumventing an access control mechanism. So long as there's any form of access control or lock involved, even if it uses the same combination an idiot would use on his luggage, breaking that protection is now a separate offense under the DMCA. All they have to do is put a trivial speed-bump, and extracting firmware is now illegal.

    Quote Originally Posted by Uwe View Post
    Now if a tuner makes and SELLS modified copies, I could see where that might be problematic.
    Agreed, but they could work around the true copyright aspect by selling just the changes in a binary-diff type of format.

    Quote Originally Posted by Uwe View Post
    Anyway, I don't think this will fly, at least not in the US.
    Pigs can fly given sufficient thrust. There are a lot of auto manufacturers strapping JATO bottles to this pig. It's likely to work, until they piss off someone with enough lawyers to stop it.

    Jason

  11. #17
    Verified VCDS User
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    So what you are suggesting is clarification of the rights included with the purchase of the car.

  12. #18
    NostraJackAss Jack@European_Parts's Avatar
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    It doesn't fall afoul of the original copyright laws. You're not really copying it, except in the hair-splitting sense of having a duplicate on your computer while you're tuning. You're modifying it. It's no different from making notes or highlighting in a paper textbook. However, as part of the DMCA, there's a new prohibition against circumventing an access control mechanism. So long as there's any form of access control or lock involved, even if it uses the same combination an idiot would use on his luggage, breaking that protection is now a separate offense under the DMCA. All they have to do is put a trivial speed-bump, and extracting firmware is now illegal.

    I can give you five different reasons they can shut up when coming to my place to uphold that.




    Ecu's do have access control mechanisms, that's for sure!
    Last edited by Jack@European_Parts; 04-29-2015 at 09:44 AM.
    European Parts Emporium/Performance / Immobilizer Solutions LLC
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    Specializing in Custom Services IE: "welding-fabrication" / EPA-SMOG Update or Pass-Thru-Programming / Data Transfer / Immobilizers & OEM Quality Parts

    www.FixMyEuro.com <<<<<CLICK HERE! or vwemporium@aol.com ( JPPSG & Unverified members need not PM me & Please don't email for free tech support...use the forum )
    Getting you CONTROL again of your property - TAKE IT! In Conjunction with.........

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    Verified VCDS User vreihen's Avatar
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    NostraJackAss Jack@European_Parts's Avatar
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    Well the EPA and the DMV DOT NTSB agencies have already failed to enforce this going on 20 years.
    They have not adequately gone after the tuners for the deletes and readiness byte circumventions.
    It has in fact affected the auto repair economy's and created an underground market, as bad as the war on drugs inverted.
    I want shops to get together and class action sue the government agencies for loss of sales due to things like this being properly enforced.

    Want to mod your car for track fine...
    Want to do it for the street...... then it must pass a rated SMOG/TUV with a certification they can tax.

    The guys doing the dirty stuff should be hung.

    WTF good is VCDS when every fucking thing is deleted and tests turned off?
    I will tell you what it is......... a VCDS auto lie detector!
    European Parts Emporium/Performance / Immobilizer Solutions LLC
    Certified Master Trained ASE/SAE/NASTF Legal Factory Authorized/Licensed GeKo/FaZit # 403738
    Specializing in Custom Services IE: "welding-fabrication" / EPA-SMOG Update or Pass-Thru-Programming / Data Transfer / Immobilizers & OEM Quality Parts

    www.FixMyEuro.com <<<<<CLICK HERE! or vwemporium@aol.com ( JPPSG & Unverified members need not PM me & Please don't email for free tech support...use the forum )
    Getting you CONTROL again of your property - TAKE IT! In Conjunction with.........

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