Mk 4 Jetta Communication down!!

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C.F.Danaher

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Hey all,

I am having a ridiculous amount of trouble attempting to get diagnostic communication on this jetta. its an 08-2000 build date, 1.8t with manual trans and power windows and locks. what I have is 11.9v B+ and 10.79v on the k line when grounded using the dlc ground. I have attempted pulling modules off the k line one by one with no success. the vehicle came in having had someone else diagnose it as a bad ECM. the vehicle cranks and starts briefly then sputters similar to an immobilizer issue and the odd thing, there is no key flashing icon while this happens.


I'm using a hex-net with current vcds software and I cant get any module to register, the interface works effectively on other vehicles. any direction would be appreciated.
 
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Jack@European_Parts

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Sounds like a bad gateway or unpowered cluster which contains the gateway for blown fuse maybe?
 
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Uwe

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Wait, how can you have "10.79v on the k line when grounded using the dlc ground"? That makes no sense. Which pin are you using for DLC ground?

-Uwe-
 
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Jack@European_Parts

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Wait, how can you have "10.79v on the k line when grounded using the dlc ground"? That makes no sense. Which pin are you using for DLC ground?

-Uwe-

This is a perfect example of an asshole ground because he has no real ground or power and the meter lies by stray voltage.

With a fuse blown, a corrosion bridge, water ingress or a bad gateway/any module, he can have that stray voltage.
 
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C.F.Danaher

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I'm probing pin 7 (what I believe to be k line) to pin 4/5 (which I believe to be grounds for the dlc connection) and it is the same value while I ground to body. also, I didn't think this vehicle new enough to have a gateway.
 
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I'm probing pin 7 (what I believe to be k line) to pin 4/5 (which I believe to be grounds for the dlc connection) and it is the same value while I ground to body. also, I didn't think this vehicle new enough to have a gateway.
Pin 4 is ground on all VAG cars. Pin 5 is sometimes, but not on all of them.

I think the way you worded things has everyone confused. I'm thinking you have the ground lead of the meter on one of those pins, but you never actually grounded the K-Line?

-Uwe-
 
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C.F.Danaher

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got that, to rephrase. pin 7 whether it be grounded to the body or pin 4, is reading 10.79v.
 
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Uwe

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got that, to rephrase. pin 7 whether it be grounded to the body or pin 4, is reading 10.79v.
What is grounded? The ground side of the meter? Or Pin 7?

-Uwe-
 
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Uwe

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Then it's not being grounded - because a wire connected to ground cannot be at 10.79V, the maximum it can be is a few fractions of a volt.
Well it can, if the supposed ground is no good. ;)

-Uwe-
 
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Well it can, if the supposed ground is no good. ;)
But a "ground that's no good" isn't actually a ground - that's my point.

The person thinks they are grounding the wire, but actually they're not.

Many times I've thought I've grounded a probe on my DVM but because of paint and/or corrosion it hasn't actually grounded, so now I always measure a known wire to check the ground is good and only then measure the wire I'm testing.
 
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C.F.Danaher

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alright, take 3. positive lead of the meter on pin 7, negative lead on pin4, or on body reads 10.79v. I have been repairing VW/Audi vehicles for a while now and never have I encountered a communication issue this in depth. this is something you don't even get experience with while working at a dealership. I'm at a complete loss and finding any information on diagnosing this system is eluding me. throwing myself at mercy of y'all for any usable info.
 
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Jack@European_Parts

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alright, take 3. positive lead of the meter on pin 7, negative lead on pin4, or on body reads 10.79v. I have been repairing VW/Audi vehicles for a while now and never have I encountered a communication issue this in depth. this is something you don't even get experience with while working at a dealership. I'm at a complete loss and finding any information on diagnosing this system is eluding me. throwing myself at mercy of y'all for any usable info




Put a tone generator on the K line and follow it to the issue at every ECU connector or harness bridge, further while observing WD.

VIN number of car please?

Anything 08/2000> will indeed have a gateway combined in cluster.

Let's start with unplugging that & since you dismissed me on it before.
 
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alright, take 3. positive lead of the meter on pin 7, negative lead on pin4, or on body reads 10.79v.
OK. Now find a resistor. Anything in the range of a few hundred ohms to a few kilo-ohms and put it between pins 4 and 7 in addition to the meter. What happens to the voltage at pin 7? Beware, if something is pulling the K-line to plus in a "hard" way, that resistor can get hot fast. In place of a resistor, you could also use a low-amperage fuse. 1A or less would be ideal. It should not blow. And the voltage on the K-line should approach ground.

-Uwe-
 
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C.F.Danaher

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it is actually an 08/2000 vehicle. and I have in plugged the cluster. and I apologize for dismissing you, it was an error and not intentional. 3VWSC29M31M041106
 
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Jack@European_Parts

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x

it is actually an 08/2000 vehicle. and I have in plugged the cluster. and I apologize for dismissing you, it was an error and not intentional. 3VWSC29M31M041106

NP ....... :p

You must unplug the cluster and then check to see if things change please at port.

Code:
Vehicle Identification No.3VWSC29M31M041106
ModelJetta GLS JEM
Date of production11.08.2000
Year2001
Sales type9M25N4
Engine CodeAWD
Transmission CodeFBW
Axle drive5S
Equipment WS
Roof colorT3
Carpet color code
Exterior color / Paint CodeT3 / C6M
x
Special editionsE0AWithout special action equipment
Lockable wheel bolts1PCWheel bolts with anti-theft protection (unlockable)
Vehicle class differentiation units/platform components0CMVehicle class differentiation -1JM-
Emission standard0GLEmission standard TLEV
Trailer hitch1D0without trailer towing
airbag4UBAirbag for NAR
Automatic transmission indicator light9FAWithout automatic transmission indicator light
Aktivkohlebehälter / Ottopartikelfilter1E4Activated carbon canister (ORVR) and siphoning device for fueling
Aerials8L3roof antenna
Exterior mirror setting6XNExterior mirrors, power-adjustable/ separately heated
Left exterior mirror5SHLeft exterior mirror, flat (US)
Right exterior mirror5RRRight exterior mirror, convex (US)
Drive type1X0Front-wheel drive
Equipment levelsA8WLuxury equipment
Brake type in rear1KXDisc brakes in rear (Geomet D)
batteriesJ1LBattery 280 A (60 Ah)
Brake type, front1ZDDisc brakes in front (Geomet D)
Components with special surface6FFExterior mirror housing and various attachments colour coded to vehicle
Controls (steering wheel/steering column)4LAWithout control element
Beverage holders4M6Beverage holders
Special color trim0UAWithout special color trim
Component part sets with country-specific design requirementsB0DAssembly kit, USA corresponding vehicle version (not California), various parts
floor covering3MHDilours floor covering without scuff guard
vehicle tools and jack1S7Tool kit and aluminum jack
brake pressure regulator1H0without brake pressure regulator
Brake systems1AJAnti-slip regulation (ABS/ASR/EDL) with electronic differential lock (EDL)
brake wear indicator9U1brake wear indicator
Heated washer nozzles9T1Heated washer nozzles in front
CD changer/CD player7A1CD changer preparation
Chrome packageQJ0Without aluminum/chrome work package
Cd enhancing underbody panel2D1Complete cd enhancing underbody panel
Roof rails/roof load rack3S0Without roof rails/roof load rack
Roof insert/convertible top3FETilting and sliding glass sunroof with sunbshade
Suspension system in rear1JYRear shock absorption, basic version 2 (NAR, South America, Mexico)
Suspension system in front1GJFront shock absorption, Basic 2 (Audi)
Insert for the filling up of unleaded fuel/fuel type2G7Filler neck module 1 with insert
Installation differentiation for components0EJInstallation differentiation for transmission MQ 250 -- vehicle components --
Theft protection system7AGElectronic immobilizer with anti-theft alarm system (for USA)
Inserts5MADecorative inserts
Interference suppression8E2Local interference suppression for FM/AM radio reception
Manufacturing sequence differentiation0FLMexico manufacturing sequence
Vehicle typeAZ0Vehicle with production equipment
chassis/running gear2E0Base chassis
window regulator4R4Power windows with comfort operation and circuit breaker
fire extinguisher6A0without fire extinguisher
Headlight activation8K4Separate daytime running lights NAR
Fresh air intake for passenger compartment (with particulate filter)2V5Fresh air intake with activated charcoal filter
Antifreeze1C2Antifreeze up to -35 degree celsius tolerance up to -40 degree C
Vehicle specificationsF0ANo special purpose vehicle, standard equipment
throttle control0L2accelerator pedal with electronic modul
Alternators8GDAlternator 90 A
Transmission types/gearshift mechanisms0G4Cable gearshift
Transmission shafts1WBTransmission shafts 100 mm in diameter
Weight category front axleU33Suspension range 132
Base engineT8C4-cyl. petrol engine 1.8 l assembly 06A.C
Luggage netting/pocket on backrest(s)4U5Luggage pockets on backrest
Luggage compartment cover3U0Without luggage compartment cover
Tie down straps/net/pocket6M3Luggage net
cruise control system8T2Electronic cruise control system (CCS)
Exterior noise suppression measures2B1additional noise dampener
Luggage compartment trim5A7Comfort luggage compartment lining with service flap
Transmission specificationsG0C5-speed manual transmission
Brackets3P0Without bracket for first aid kit and warning triangle
handle for hand brake lever6PAHand brake lever handle in plastic
Rear window wiper and washer system8M0Without rear window wiper and washer system
Grab handles at roof frame5N6Folding grab handles on roof frame soft fold-away
Rear axle0N1Standard rear axle
Molded headliner6NGUnsplit molded headliner roof cutout rear (radio antenna)
Rear seats3NFRear seat bench/backrest, split folding locking
Heating and air-conditioning system9ABManually controlled air conditioning system
Headlamps8BLHalogen headlamps for driving on the right, US design
Instrument clustersU0FInstrument cluster with tachometer, clock and mph speedometer
Breakaway interior rearview mirror4L2Breakaway interior rearview mirror, dimming
Sticker (customized or special edition)0KAWithout decals and emblems
Body styleK8BNotchback
Luggage compartment floor covering6SCLuggage compartment floor covering in needle-punched nonwoven
Cassette and CD storage unit4W0without cassette / CD tray
Electronic map cooling systemQS0Without electronic map cooling system
headrest for seat, rear3Q6Three rear head restraints
Head restraints5ZHHead restraints for front seats, tilt- and height-adjustable with integrated adjustment mechanism
Fuel tank treatment2LCFuel tank with special material treatment (coextrusion)
Fuel quantity for initial filling1Z0Initial standard fuel filling
Fuel systems0F2Fuel system for SI engine
Body measures5C1Body measures for increased safety requirements
Catalytic converter control8KAwithout catalyst control
Radiator grille6KCRadiator grille
Rear license plate bracket6P2License plate bracket, rear (NAR)
Front license plate bracket6W3License plate bracket front (small, NAR)
Paint preservative/transit coating5K5Transportation protective film (instead of paint preservation)
Paint coatingFB0standard paint coating
Rear cargo area3GAWithout luggage compartment floor
Steering system arrangementL0LLeft-hand drive
Reading lamp8S2One reading light in front, two reading lights in rear
steering1N9steering gear
Backrest release3H0Without backrest release for front seats
Lumbar support7P0Without lumbar support in seat backrests
steering wheels1MPSteering wheel for airbag system
Speaker installation9VG"Monsoon sound system" (NAR)
Steering column systems2C5Steering column, adjusted axially and vertically
Headlight range control8Q0without beam length regulator
Center armrest6E3Front center armrest
Multi-function display/trip computer9Q0Without multi-function display/ trip computer
Engine cooling8Z6Engine cooling, version 2
Engine specificationsM984-cyl. gasoline engine 1.8 L/110 kW 20V turbo base engine is T8B/T8C
engine compartment lighting9L0without engine compartment lighting
Left vanity mirror4SQLeft vanity mirror illuminated with cover and special mirror imprint (NAR)
Right vanity mirror4TQVanity mirror, right, illuminated, with cover and special mirror imprint (NAR)
Navigation device7Q0without navigation system
rear fog lamp8TAwitout rear fog lamp
Front fog lamp/additional headlamp8WAWithout fog lights
Rear of platform module base4P1Rear floor panel module, type 2
Platform group class7PAPlatform group class 1
Hubcaps1NLTrims for alloy wheels
WheelsC6VAlloy wheels 6J x 15 Design: Avus, ET 38
Radios8YTRadio "Premium"
Smoker's/non-smoker's package9JANon smoker version
tireH5BAll-weather tires 195/65 R15 H (NAR)
Tire suppliersV0ATires without specification of tire brand
Spare wheel/breakdown kit1G2Spare wheel with full tyre, steel
PCACOLD WEATHER PACKAGE (USA/CAN)
PEALUXURY PACKAGE (15" ALLOY WHEELS)
RSMsound system "Monsoon" package
Side airbag4X1Side airbag in front
Gearshift knob/handle6Q4Comfort gearshift knob/handle
Special labels/plates0SCLabels in English
Tail lamp assemblies8SBTaillight assembly w/ dark colored lens
Locking mechanism for boot lid/cover rear4E2Tailgate/trunk lid release from inside (electrically)
Materials of low flammability4Q1Materials of low flammability
Nameplates for sales nameQD3Jetta, lettering for sales name
Seat belt check9P1Seat belt reminder, electric contact in buckle
Outer rear seat belts3ZM3-point seat belts, outer rear
Center rear seat belts3C73-point seat belt for center rear seat
Gearshift boot/cover6R1Gearshift boot in leatherette
seat coversN0UCut pile seat covering
Seat adjustment3L3Manual height adjustment for front seats
seat heater4A3seat heating for front seats separat controlable
Side lights7R4Side marker lamps and turn signal repeaters (turn signals with white lens)
Key for locking system8QEKey for locking system with remote control
Start-stop system/regenerative braking7L0Without inertia benefit system/ deceleration fuel cut-off/idle stop valve
Horns8Y1Two-tone horn
Side and rear windows4KCSide and rear windows in heat-insulating glass
Protective side molding4B2Body-colored protective side molding
Sunroof roller blind for rear/side windows3Y0without roller blind
power outlet7B212 volt socket in luggage compartment
Bumper2JCComfort bumpers
Rear stabilizer0BCRear stabilizer
Front stabilizer0AEFront stabilizer
Heavy-duty/sports version2UAWithout bad road/sports version
Headlamp washer system8X0Without headlamp washer system
Windshield wiper intermittent control/ light/rain sensor8N4Windshield wiper intermittent control with potentiometer (four speeds)
Nameplate set1RTNameplate set "1.8T"
Door storage compartments in front3YRDoor pockets with insert mats
Fuel filler cap/door, locking option2W2Fuel filler cap, attached (NAR)
Mass damper for steering wheels1Q0steering wheel without balance weight
Door and lid locking system4K0Central locking w/ radio remote control and interior controls
Type approval countries/countries with special requirementsB34Legal requirements USA
Carrier frequency for remote control5D2Carrier frequency 315 MHz
Partition3CAwithout partition
Door and side trim panels4ARDoor and side trim panel in foam film and circular-knit
doors0A24 doors
TV reception/digital radio receptionQV0without TV/digital radio reception
Speedometer cable and seal8CCSpeedometer sensor without seal (electronic speedometer sensor)
Front underbody guard1SAWithout additional front underbody guard
Identification plates1EBwithout identification plate
Two-way radio installation preparation9D0without prepared for two way radio system
Front seatsQ2Jconvenience seat
Rear seat catch6QBLocking rear seat catch
Preparation for rotating beacon/siren combination9F0Without preparation for rotating beacon/siren combination
Telephone / telematics9W0Without car phone preparation/ installation
Additional warning lights9TBAdditional warning lights (door area)
LongLife Service RegimeQG0without service interval extension
Heat accumulator system/auxiliary heater7E0W/o heat accumulator/auxiliary heating
Windshield Glass4GCWindshield in heat-insulating glass with colourstripe
Washer fluid level indicator8W1Washer fluid level indicator
floor mats0TDFront and rear floor mats
Additional body panels, side6EAWithout additional side body covers (stone guard)
Additional child seat anchors3B2Child seat anchors acc. to Australian requirements
Zündanlaß/Schloß-Sperrsystem/ Elektrische Lenksäulenverriegelung0RBIgnition/starter switch locking system
Additional tunnel cover4J1Floor tray, extension center console
Additional dust seals6U0Without additional seals outside
 
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C.F.Danaher

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ended up being the cluster, can portion shorted to k line.
 
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Jack@European_Parts

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We have those 2000 Beetle new clusters to replace the dog doo design cluster you had if interested.

Did you find coolant at the connectors?

Follow up auto-scan please?
 
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its a customer vehicle, purchased a new replacement. getting it adapted now. I will see if I can dig up an autoscan from it
 
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