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Thread: VCP product and forum sued by VW AG Germany, they call for donations for legal fees

  1. #1
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    VCP product and forum sued by VW AG Germany, they call for donations for legal fees

    First of all I'm really really sorry towards Ross-Tech that I'm using the space here to tell about this what is happening, but I thought it would be important in a sense that if they subdue one tool, nothing prevents them on to moving on to next one which could very well be VCDS.

    So long story short. VW AG Germany has sued VCP manufacturer in Poland and their knowledgebase forum in Germany for using VAG name in their product line. As what I understood that the product itself isn't against their brand, using the VAG brand name in the product is not ok.
    Now VCP forum owner has decided not to give in and is asking for donations to fight against the big faceless corporation. The liabilities they are demanding are from 5 to 6 digit figure so quite big.

    This is a direct quote from VCP forum posted by mh254 :

    "So, here are a few details on the warning and the current state of affairs:

    The amount in dispute was stated with 250000 €, which has ever led to 3000 € cost for the opposing lawyer, which I have to pay until 03.01.2018. In addition, there is still a punished cease and desist order, which I should also signed back to 03.01.2018.

    In addition, I have to specify how many of the warned interfaces I sold to whom and where I got the goods. From this then the compensation to be paid is calculated, a five-figure sum is likely to come out.

    Because of the great response on Friday, I immediately had a specialist lawyer recommend me and phoned him on Friday. He then made me a modified omission statement, which we then faxed signed to the opposing lawyers. The bill was then already on Saturday in the mailbox."


    I am personally not affiliated with this matter in any other way than supported the cause already by donating. Even though the tools are seen as competitive tools at least a little, but anyone who has used them know this is not the case. They are different tools and they serve different user bases but both are very useful and most welcome tools for both everyday diagnosis and much more in-deep retrofitting scene. Both tools are needed and now if VW AG is successful in subduing the other, we have a big hit on retrofitting area and is a setback to the whole modding scene. And in worst case also opens the door for more lawsuits against other modding tools.

    So if you feel that supporting modding scene against big corporation is a just cause, you can send your donations here : https://paypal.me/VCPforumHilfe

    Again, Sorry Uwe and others that I'm using this space for this message. If you feel that this is not belonging here, then please free feel to delete it. No hard feelings if that is done either. I just wanted to try help and bring this information to bigger audience.

  2. #2
    Benevolent Dictator Uwe's Avatar
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    Been there, done that, a decade ago, with the original product name, "VAG-COM". Well, they didn't actually sue us; they just made life really difficult for us when we tried to register a trademark for that product name. At first, we tried to fight them too, but in the end, they have far more resources to throw at lawyers than any small company does, and after several years of back-and-forth, we agreed to change the product name. In exchange, they explicitly agreed that what we doing in terms of product was OK.

    However, I think there are some really questionable things about VCP's business that go well beyond the product name, for example, the distribution of VWAG's flash files and such to their customers....

    -Uwe-
    The engineering problems are likely insurmountable. It would be like proposing to land a rocket booster section on a barge floating in the middle of the ocean.

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    NostraJackAss Jack@European_Parts's Avatar
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    Been there, done that, a decade ago, with the original product name, "VAG-COM". Well, they didn't actually sue us; they just made life really difficult for us when we tried to register a trademark for that product name. At first, we tried to fight them too, but in the end, they have far more resources to throw at lawyers than any small company does, and after several years of back-and-forth, we agreed to change the product name. In exchange, they explicitly agreed that what we doing in terms of product was OK.

    However, I think there are some really questionable things about VCP's business that go well beyond the product name, for example, the distribution of VWAG's flash files and such to their customers....

    -Uwe-
    I am not without such a suit threatened and lodged at me or in my lap directly by VWGoA in 2003 & by two law firms....... "but one day........""it was the day after"" Saul's Birthday 2017"!

    How is it anyone can claim infringement & if you are indeed selling genuine OEM parts purchased or services using tools you bought from them they profited on & "by them"........ I mean from the OEM directly with trained permission?



    I gave up "written permission" to use the TM logos and " www.vwemporium.com " , however, I was still permitted & it was further agreed on, to allow me to keep my aol email and eBay store!

    NostraJackAss Has Spoken!
    European Parts Emporium/Performance / Immobilizer Solutions EPE
    Certified Master Trained ASE/SAE/NASTF Legal Factory Authorized/Licensed GeKo/FaZit # 403738
    Specializing in Custom Services IE: "welding-fabrication" / EPA-SMOG Update or Pass-Thru-Programming / Data Transfer / Immobilizers & OEM Quality Parts

    www.FixMyEuro.com <<<<<CLICK HERE! or vwemporium@aol.com ( JPPSG & Unverified members need not PM me & Please don't email for free tech support...use the forum )
    Getting you CONTROL again of your property - TAKE IT! In Conjunction with.........

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  6. #4
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    Thank you for a very good responses from both of you.

    I presumed the reason for name change was something like this.
    Small correction though on VCP and flashing. VCP offers flashing support but the flash files itself can be downloaded from VAG groups Erwin system free of charge by anyone. Just need registerating yourself there.
    The parametrization files however are not distributed freely and those probably are under the question mark where they get those

    But like said, not affiliated with them any way just bringing this event to bigger audiences information. Nothing more.
    Everyone can decide on their own behalf if they support or not.

  7. #5
    Ross-Tech Employee Sebastian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by downtime View Post
    Small correction though on VCP and flashing. VCP offers flashing support but the flash files itself can be downloaded from VAG groups Erwin system free of charge by anyone.
    While your statement may represent the current situation, as far as I recollect - Uwe is correct about past procedures.

    That said, VW/VAG isn't the only party that believes there have been one or more infringements.

    Personally, I find it utterly disturbing that a company that makes money off of a product is now asking users to pay for their mistakes. The whole trademark and brand logo discussion is everything but new, I know for a fact that they were told that is a problem years ago. They did not listen at the time and kept using trademarks and logos. No pity from my end, they made money by using those names and logos. Now it is time to pay up. Deal with it.
    Sebastian @ Ross-Tech.com // VCDS Rookie since 2003

    »Nichts erweitert das eigene Wissen mehr,
    als die Meinung eines Andersdenkenden.«

  8. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sebastian View Post
    Personally, I find it utterly disturbing that a company that makes money off of a product is now asking users to pay for their mistakes.
    Hi
    This is only a re-sellers for a German market ,I can only say that before opening the shop, he had to understand if his product was regular for the German market asking first for advice from some counsels specialists.

  9. #7
    Verified VCDS User PetrolDave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by downtime View Post
    Everyone can decide on their own behalf if they support or not.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sebastian View Post
    I know for a fact that they were told that is a problem years ago. They did not listen at the time and kept using trademarks and logos.
    So they have known for several years that they were in breach of copyright and/or trademarks, but carried on using them?

    On that basis IMHO they do not deserve support, since they have knowingly and wilfully continued doing something they know to be probably illegal.

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  11. #8
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    I did not know that there's a history like this behind. Sorry.

    My intention is not to start any flame war between different people. My genuine worry was only that instead of losing one good tool we end up losing two
    But as I've now been educated maybe this is what was coming in the end for the other tool in long run anyway.

    Maybe Uwe or Sebastian should close and delete this thread?

  12. #9
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    IMHO it should be fair for companies to be able to protect their intellectual property but there becomes a concern of the fine balance in society when corporate power abuse occurs. I will need to read the actual allegations before making a judgment (not that i doubt what you're saying downtime), but rules already exist for OEM and aftermarket. If VCP are operating outside of this then they get what's coming to them, if they're not then I'll support them.

    On licence I believe you can obtain all of VW's files in compliance with EU Laws. I suspect (I know nothing about the case) that they've strayed past the 'red-line' and are being hunted down. As UWE stated, VW may also have a gripe about the use of 'VAG' and will use that as a thrust to bring about other claims. Sadly though in this world, the bigger the bank balance, the easier to persuade your way!

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  14. #10
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    I've just had a quick look at their site and they've changed their name to VCP System 5 days ago.

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