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Thread: What's the purpose of the Center O2 sensor?

  1. #11
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    "HOLE this" ... interpret?

  2. #12
    Benevolent Dictator Uwe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Geoffzie View Post
    "HOLE this" ... interpret?
    Jack is very much opposed to any and all things that "cheat" the emissions systems.

    -Uwe-
    The engineering problems are likely insurmountable. It would be like proposing to land a rocket booster section on a barge floating in the middle of the ocean.

  3. #13
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    Ah ... I understand perfectly.

  4. #14
    NostraJackAss Jack@European_Parts's Avatar
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  5. #15
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    It's been WAY too cold here to get back to this project .. even with a heated garage (0-10 degrees F.)! ... up until this week.

    I had pulled the downpipe with CAT off the car to take a look at it ... I knew there was a problem because the CAT "rattled" when hit. Turns out there wasn't much ceramic left in it! After much meditation ... I decided the best and cheapest way to go was, a universal CAT with provision for the Center O2 Sensor. After reading up on aftermarket CAT's I discovered that they're only required to last for 50,000 miles ... as opposed to the OEM requirements. (except for California maybe)

    Since the universal CAT's on Rock Auto were relatively inexpensive ... I went with a CAT that was a little longer than required, with 2 1/4" inlet and outlet to match the Jetta MK5 exhaust, designed for a 5.9L engine / 6000LB Vehicle. It was a little longer than the one designed for smaller engines ... but I figured for $5 more dollars, it should last longer. It cost $66.78 delivered!

    I removed the rest of the ceramic from the old CAT and reinstalled it back on the car before I ordered the new CAT. i just wanted to do a vacuum test at idle and about 3000 rpm steady ... to make sure there was no back pressure from "CAT debris" that might have made it's way downstream into the muffler or tailpipe and caused "clogging". Vacuum measured good in all tests, and when I tested for rattles in the rest of the exhaust (after the rest of the ceramic was removed form the old CAT) ... no more rattles.

    I welded the new CAT onto the downpipe and tailpipe, reinstalled the 2 - O2 sensors, and reinstalled the exhaust. By the way, since the universal CAT's from Rock Auto have the center O2 sensor coming straight out, rather than angled, as on the OEM CAT ... you've got to position / rotate it just right so the O2 sensor clears the tunnel.

    After clearing the P0420 code and driving the car for a while (to "break in" the new CAT per the manufacture) ... no more codes. As I observed the CAT temperature in Advanced Measuring Values ... the temperature got as high as 650 degrees initially, but stabilized at 400 to 500 degrees. Here's the final numbers ...

    Code:
     Address 01: Engine  (06A 906 032 QC)
    
    18:07:47
         00011   Bank 1 Sensor 1
      00001110   Bank 1 Sensor 2
          1110   Bank 1 Sensor 3
      B1-S1 OK   Result Lambda Aging
      B1-S2 OK   Lambda Sensor Aging Test B1S2
      B1-S3 OK   Lambda Sensor Aging Test B1S3
      1.440 V   Sensor Voltage Bank 1 Sensor 1
      0.630 V   Sensor Voltage Bank 1 Sensor 2
      0.655 V   Sensor Voltage Bank 1 Sensor 3
      486.0C   Catalytic Converter Bank 1 Temp.
      Cat B1 OK   Cat. Conversion Test Bank 1
    Looks like the P0420 problem is solved ... for $66.78! And Jack should be happy ... cause it's legal!

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  7. #16
    NostraJackAss Jack@European_Parts's Avatar
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    It's been WAY too cold here to get back to this project .. even with a heated garage (0-10 degrees F.)! ... up until this week.

    I had pulled the downpipe with CAT off the car to take a look at it ... I knew there was a problem because the CAT "rattled" when hit. Turns out there wasn't much ceramic left in it! After much meditation ... I decided the best and cheapest way to go was, a universal CAT with provision for the Center O2 Sensor. After reading up on aftermarket CAT's I discovered that they're only required to last for 50,000 miles ... as opposed to the OEM requirements. (except for California maybe)

    Since the universal CAT's on Rock Auto were relatively inexpensive ... I went with a CAT that was a little longer than required, with 2 1/4" inlet and outlet to match the Jetta MK5 exhaust, designed for a 5.9L engine / 6000LB Vehicle. It was a little longer than the one designed for smaller engines ... but I figured for $5 more dollars, it should last longer. It cost $66.78 delivered!

    I removed the rest of the ceramic from the old CAT and reinstalled it back on the car before I ordered the new CAT. i just wanted to do a vacuum test at idle and about 3000 rpm steady ... to make sure there was no back pressure from "CAT debris" that might have made it's way downstream into the muffler or tailpipe and caused "clogging". Vacuum measured good in all tests, and when I tested for rattles in the rest of the exhaust (after the rest of the ceramic was removed form the old CAT) ... no more rattles.

    I welded the new CAT onto the downpipe and tailpipe, reinstalled the 2 - O2 sensors, and reinstalled the exhaust. By the way, since the universal CAT's from Rock Auto have the center O2 sensor coming straight out, rather than angled, as on the OEM CAT ... you've got to position / rotate it just right so the O2 sensor clears the tunnel.

    After clearing the P0420 code and driving the car for a while (to "break in" the new CAT per the manufacture) ... no more codes. As I observed the CAT temperature in Advanced Measuring Values ... the temperature got as high as 650 degrees initially, but stabilized at 400 to 500 degrees. Here's the final numbers ...
    http://forums.ross-tech.com/showthre...twagen-5-speed

    Looks like the P0420 problem is solved ... for $66.78! And Jack should be happy ... cause it's legal!
    Actually it is not and nope it doesn't comport with the regulations at all.

    VIN: 3VWPG71K55M620606 Mileage: 277680km-172542miles

    Address 01: Engine Labels: 06A-906-032-BGQ.lbl
    Control Module Part Number: 06A 906 032 QC HW: Hardware No
    Component and/or Version: 2.5l R5/4V G 6605 You could of done the update 9422 or higher and fix the reason the CAT was damaged!


    My way would of netted profit in end and cost nothing but than again you know what you are doing!

    NostraJackass Has Spoken!
    Last edited by Jack@European_Parts; 01-11-2018 at 10:16 PM.
    European Parts Emporium/Performance / Immobilizer Solutions EPE
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  8. #17
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    I should have rephrased that ... I should have said, "at least it will pass in Ohio for licensing". Some of us don't have an unlimited budget to work with Jack.

    My way would of netted profit in end and cost nothing but than again you know what you are doing!
    Jack, I don't understand how it would have "cost nothing" ... if the CAT was already destroyed. My understanding is that the CAT warranty period is only 150,000 miles or 15 years for SULEV vehicles. Obviously, I'm past that.

    I do plan to check with the local VW dealer to see if there are any FREE recalls ... I'll also check into the firmware update.

    I initially thought that the upper timing chain had been replaced, and they hadn't torqued the cam bolt properly. But according to the previous owner, they had driven the car for almost 7000 miles with the car running rough! They had replaced plugs, coils, O2 sensors, and then finally discovered the problem was the PCV diaphragm ... but I believe the damage was already done ... all the bucking and rough running probably loosened the cam bolt, and the lousy fuel mixture probably destroyed the CAT.

  9. #18
    Verified VCDS User iichel's Avatar
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    I think what Jack is trying to say is that the new catalytic converter could also be destroyed quickly if the underlying problem isn't solved.

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  11. #19
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    I agree, but as I said above, the "underlying problem" seems to have been that the previous owner drove the car for 7000 miles in a rough-running state! I would tend to believe that THAT was the real cause of the CAT failure.

    Now that the car is running, I AM going to check into the firmware update.

  12. #20
    NostraJackAss Jack@European_Parts's Avatar
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    I should have rephrased that ... I should have said, "at least it will pass in Ohio for licensing". Some of us don't have an unlimited budget to work with Jack.
    If you pointed out what you did to an authority of Ohio DMV, they would indeed void your inspection.



    Ahhhh nope........try again!

    http://epa.ohio.gov/dapc/mobile.aspx
    Welcome to the Ohio E-Check Homepage


    The Clean Air Act requires 31 state and local areas to conduct vehicle inspection and maintenance programs to control vehicle emissions and help meet national air quality standards.
    In Jan. 1996, the State of Ohio began a new vehicle emissions testing program, E-Check, designed to identify motor vehicles that emit excessive levels of pollutants into the air. Among the other emissions control options considered by legislature, E-Check was the most cost-efficient measure to reduce the volatile organic compounds (VOCs) that form ground-level ozone, or smog. The program currently tests cars in seven Ohio counties.







    Jack, I don't understand how it would have "cost nothing" ... if the CAT was already destroyed. My understanding is that the CAT warranty period is only 150,000 miles or 15 years for SULEV vehicles. Obviously, I'm past that.

    I do plan to check with the local VW dealer to see if there are any FREE recalls ... I'll also check into the firmware update. <<<<< GOOD!

    I initially thought that the upper timing chain had been replaced, and they hadn't torqued the cam bolt properly. But according to the previous owner, they had driven the car for almost 7000 miles with the car running rough! They had replaced plugs, coils, O2 sensors, and then finally discovered the problem was the PCV diaphragm ... but I believe the damage was already done ... all the bucking and rough running probably loosened the cam bolt, and the lousy fuel mixture probably destroyed the CAT.

    See it is all how you argue an issue and obtain the documentation......just stop trying to argue your way into a hole.
    Check yourself and JPPSG by education.

    Lets observe the facts:

    Car has a required update due, TSB exists for a problem with Injectors, EVAP and CAT + VC etc....etc.... ( known issues )
    These things obviously were not done nor was the customer properly informed with proof of good service to do these things?

    So to me .......you can say they are all a vicarious result of the known issues that were not corrected at time of warranty to comport with CAA or extension of warranty as a result of not lasting the stated useful life.
    Demand proof of service or a signed form showing the prior owner declined such repairs or ask for a written statement from prior owner asking if he had knowledge.
    In some states they maybe even share liability.
    Then complain to VW alleging the aforementioned directly & if no satisfaction is had since a campaign was not properly initiated to begin with, contact the agencies that work for you on your tax money & make them do something!

    The more people that stand up and say something will force agencies to see there is a pattern and a problem they must correct.

    It doesn't cost that much money to write some emails......or letters certified mail.
    European Parts Emporium/Performance / Immobilizer Solutions EPE
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    Specializing in Custom Services IE: "welding-fabrication" / EPA-SMOG Update or Pass-Thru-Programming / Data Transfer / Immobilizers & OEM Quality Parts

    www.FixMyEuro.com <<<<<CLICK HERE! or vwemporium@aol.com ( JPPSG & Unverified members need not PM me & Please don't email for free tech support...use the forum )
    Getting you CONTROL again of your property - TAKE IT! In Conjunction with.........

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