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Thread: 06 new beetle P0411 secondary air injection insufficient flow detected

  1. #1
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    06 new beetle P0411 secondary air injection insufficient flow detected

    Thanks for the opportunity to post my problem. I'm an old guy that understands point and condensers so please be patient with me.

    Performed output test of components (air pump and valve that directs air to exhaust) for SAI successfully. This is a 1- bank system. Measuring block 030 reporting 00011 for bank 1 sensor 1 never to change. O2 sensor replaced but same results. Now at a total loss. The connectors are different so cannot swap with rear O2 sensor. Wiring would always be a possibility but hate to go there if I don't have to. Tried to display O2 sensor voltage but cannot find measuring block for voltage from each O2 sensor. Any input would be welcomed. How does ecu verify SAI is functional? Would make sense O2 sensor required. On another note, if O2 sensor defective, why is fault not reported?

  2. #2
    NostraJackAss Jack@European_Parts's Avatar
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    Thanks for the opportunity to post my problem. I'm an old guy that understands point and condensers so please be patient with me.

    Performed output test of components (air pump and valve that directs air to exhaust) for SAI successfully. This is a 1- bank system. Measuring block 030 reporting 00011 for bank 1 sensor 1 never to change. O2 sensor replaced but same results. Now at a total loss. The connectors are different so cannot swap with rear O2 sensor. Wiring would always be a possibility but hate to go there if I don't have to. Tried to display O2 sensor voltage but cannot find measuring block for voltage from each O2 sensor. Any input would be welcomed. How does ecu verify SAI is functional? Would make sense O2 sensor required. On another note, if O2 sensor defective, why is fault not reported?



    Hello OP and welcome to the VCDS forum..........congratulation's on getting verified.

    I come from that time of "points"........ hell even magnetos..........

    Does the SAI pump operate using test of outputs or direct tests?

    0x01-03 GO

    0x01-04-077 ON


    How about fuses?

    Is combi functional and or port free of carbon to CAT through head or pipes.....?

    Links below helpful to understanding my lingo.

    http://forums.ross-tech.com/showthre...ut-0x01-08-000

    Do you have a book or RTFB?

    https://www.erwin.vw.com/erwin/showHome.do


    Please see the JPPSG here.

    http://forums.ross-tech.com/showthre...uot-JPPSG-quot

    Please post an auto-scan and here is how & it will give us some details....... even though no DTC's are present.

    European Parts Emporium/Performance / Immobilizer Solutions LLC
    Certified Master Trained ASE/SAE/NASTF Legal Factory Authorized/Licensed GeKo/FaZit # 403738
    Specializing in Custom Services IE: "welding-fabrication" / EPA-SMOG Update or Pass-Thru-Programming / Data Transfer / Immobilizers & OEM Quality Parts

    www.FixMyEuro.com <<<<<CLICK HERE! or vwemporium@aol.com ( JPPSG & Unverified members need not PM me & Please don't email for free tech support...use the forum )
    Getting you CONTROL again of your property - TAKE IT! In Conjunction with.........

  3. #3
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    Hi Jack, For a guy from the "points" era, you have managed to adapt. Me on the other hand, daily driver is 85 Saab 900 turbo SPG. Just about all I can handle comfortably. Even bought 68 Barracuda to make me feel good.

    Wanted to start this reply with answering your questions but issues are changing.

    Well for some reason the SAI on readiness window shows passed but P0411 fault remains. Need to learn how to insert screen shot or attach file. This would help. What is not ready is O2 sensor.

    Readiness Status: 0010 0000
    Exhaust Gas Recirculation: Passed
    Oxygen Sensor Heating: Passed
    Oxygen Sensor(s): Failed or Incomplete
    Air Conditioning: Passed
    Secondary Air Injection: Passed
    Evaporative Emissions: Passed
    Catalyst Heating: Passed
    Catalytic Converter(s): Passed

    Does the SAI pump operate using test of outputs or direct tests? Is combi functional and or port free of carbon to CAT through head or pipes.....? - Testing output for SAI are successful. Even took valve off and blew through air pump connection, at valve opening, to verify pass through the valve. Pending is blowing through valve when mounted. Hope this will verify lack of any carbon. Can I not inject air from an air compressor into valve, when activated, and monitor the one good O2 sensor reporting for change or will ECU adapt to lean condition.


    0x01-03 GO - Successful output test for air pump and valve.

    0x01-04-077 ON - Neglected to reconnect air pump to valve when test initiated. Test indicated "abort". Is it possible to re-initiate test? From what I have observed, it goes into test when cold and on its own.


    How about fuses? Chased fuses and relays prior to knowing I can initiate output test. O2 sensor heating circuit would suspect fused but output volotage, wideband in this case, is generated by O2 sensor itself is it not.

    Do you have a book or RTFB? - Own a Bentley Publishers service manual.


    Autoscan as follows:

    Code:
    Saturday,11,November,2017,11:30:28:61840
    VCDS -- Windows Based VAG/VAS Emulator Running on Windows 10 x64
    VCDS Version: 17.8.0.1 (x64)
    Data version: 20170721 DS276.2
    www.Ross-Tech.com
    
    
    VIN: 3VWRF31YX6M330145   License Plate: 
    Mileage: 137140km-85214mi   Repair Order: 
    
    
    
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    
    
    Chassis Type: 1Y (1Y - VW New Beetle Cab (2003 > 2010))
    Scan: 01 02 03 08 15 17 19 25 26 29 35 37 39 46 54 56 65 75
     
    VIN: 3VWRF31YX6M330145   Mileage: 137140km-85214miles
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Address 01: Engine        Labels: 06A-906-032-BGP.lbl
       Part No SW: 07K 906 032 B    HW: Hardware No 
       Component: R5              G   7828  
       Revision: --------    Serial number: VWZ5Z0F4238213
       Coding: 0000003
       Shop #: WSC 00066 000 00000
       VCID: 285F26CC98028B06E2-5140
    
    1 Fault Found:
    001041 - Secondary Air Injection System 
                   P0411 - 001 - Incorrect Flow Detected - MIL ON
                 Freeze Frame:
                        Fault Status: 11100001
                        Fault Priority: 0
                        Fault Frequency: 1
                        Reset counter: 255
                        Mileage: 136957 km
                        Time Indication: 0
    
                 Freeze Frame:
                        RPM: 949 /min
                        Load: 27.8 %
                        Speed: 0.0 km/h
                        Temperature: 24.0°C
                        Temperature: 23.0°C
                        Absolute Pres.: 990.0 mbar
                        Voltage: 14.224 V
    
    Readiness: 0010 0000
    
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Address 02: Auto Trans        Labels: 09G-927-750.clb
       Part No SW: 09G 927 750 CG    HW: 09G 927 750 CG
       Component: AQ 250 6F           0759  
       Revision: 00H27000    Serial number:               
       Coding: 0000008
       Shop #: WSC 00000 000 00000
       VCID: 78FF368C0822DB86B2-5124
    
    No fault code found.
    
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Address 03: ABS Brakes        Labels: 1C0-907-37x-ESP-F.lbl
       Part No: 1C0 907 379 Q
       Component: ESP FRONT MK60      0101  
       Coding: 0019978
       Shop #: WSC 00066 000 00000
       VCID: 387FF68C48A21B8672-5124
    
    No fault code found.
    
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Address 15: Airbags        Labels: 1T0-909-605.lbl
       Part No: 6Q0 909 605 AL
       Component: 01 AIRBAG VW71      0811  
       Coding: 0012337
       Shop #: WSC 00066 000 00000
       VCID: 01095B685BF89A4E85-5140
    
       Subsystem 1 - Part No: 1C0 959 339 F
       Component: BF-Gewichtsens. 006 0007
    
    No fault code found.
    
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Address 17: Instruments        Labels: None
       Part No: 1C0 920 501 T
       Component: KOMBI+WEGFAHRS. M73 V01  
       Coding: 11234
       Shop #: WSC 25096  
       VCID: 295923C8D308B20EFD-4B00
    
    No fault code found.
    
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Address 19: CAN Gateway        Labels: 6N0-909-901-19.lbl
       Part No: 6N0 909 901 
       Component: Gateway K<->CAN    V012  
       Coding: 00006
       Shop #: WSC 00066  
       VCID: 70EF0EAC305283C67A-4AE8
    
    No fault code found.
    
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Address 25: Immobilizer        Labels: 1C0-920-xxx-25.clb
       Part No SW: 1C0 920 501 T    HW: 1C0 920 501 T
       Component: IMMO                X007  
       Revision: xxxxxxxx    Serial number: VWZ5Z0F4238213
       Shop #: WSC 25096 444 85853
       VCID: 295923C88308B20EFD-5140
    
    No fault code found.
    
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Address 26: Auto Roof        Labels: 1Y0-959-255-HYD.lbl
       Part No: 1Y0 959 255 C
       Component:  VSG  NBC           3601  
       Shop #: WSC 00000 000 00000
       VCID: 408F9E6C10725346CA-5124
    
    No fault code found.
    
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Address 46: Central Conv.        Labels: 1C0-959-799.lbl
       Part No: 1C0 959 799 G
       Component: 6J Komfortgerát HLO 0004  
       Coding: 00256
       Shop #: WSC 00066  
       VCID: 3B75E9802994309E9F-4B00
    
       Subsystem 1 - Part No: 1Y1959801C
       Component: 6J Tőrsteuer.FS KLO 0005  
    
       Subsystem 2 - Part No: 1Y1959802D
       Component: 6J Tőrsteuer.BF KLO 0005  
    
       Subsystem 3 - Part No: 1Y0959811
       Component: 6J Tőrsteuer.HL KLO 0005  
    
       Subsystem 4 - Part No: 1Y0959812
       Component: 6J Tőrsteuer.HR KLO 0005  
    
    No fault code found.
    
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Address 56: Radio        Labels: 1J0-035-18x-56.lbl
       Part No: 1C0 035 196 BP
       Component:  RADIO DE2         0006  
       Coding: 06031
       Shop #: WSC 00066  
       VCID: 6ED310D42A66953668-51B6
    
    No fault code found.
    
    End-------------------------(Elapsed Time: 03:59)--------------------------

    Hope I have answered all of your questions Jack. Only had to write this three times. Again, many thanks for your response.
    Last edited by Uwe; 11-11-2017 at 02:03 PM. Reason: CODE tags

  4. #4
    NostraJackAss Jack@European_Parts's Avatar
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    Please do me a favor and clear all error codes and recode the controller, then repost a new auto-scan immediately afterward.

    Please be sure your VCDS system is configured with a valid tester #, WSC and importer ID.

    0x01-07-Recode with same data 0000003

    Part No SW: 07K 906 032 B HW: Hardware No
    Component: R5 G 7828 <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<Firmware update needed 9940 or higher after dropped part # supersession on SVM!
    Revision: -------- Serial number: VWZ5Z0F4238213
    Coding: 0000003
    Shop #: WSC 00066 000 00000
    RTFB has clear position on all questions or test procedures and especially on the use of compressed air on SAI system is not permitted ....NIX that!



    Thank you
    Last edited by Jack@European_Parts; 11-11-2017 at 04:14 PM.
    European Parts Emporium/Performance / Immobilizer Solutions LLC
    Certified Master Trained ASE/SAE/NASTF Legal Factory Authorized/Licensed GeKo/FaZit # 403738
    Specializing in Custom Services IE: "welding-fabrication" / EPA-SMOG Update or Pass-Thru-Programming / Data Transfer / Immobilizers & OEM Quality Parts

    www.FixMyEuro.com <<<<<CLICK HERE! or vwemporium@aol.com ( JPPSG & Unverified members need not PM me & Please don't email for free tech support...use the forum )
    Getting you CONTROL again of your property - TAKE IT! In Conjunction with.........

  5. #5
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    Hi Jack,

    Code:
    Tuesday,14,November,2017,13:22:46:61840
    VCDS -- Windows Based VAG/VAS Emulator Running on Windows 10 x64
    VCDS Version: 17.8.0.1 (x64)
    Data version: 20170721 DS276.2
    www.Ross-Tech.com
    
    
    VIN: 3VWRF31YX6M330145   License Plate: 
    
    
    Chassis Type: 1Y (1Y - VW New Beetle Cab (2003 > 2010))
    Scan: 01 02 03 08 15 17 19 25 26 29 35 37 39 46 54 56 65 75
     
    VIN: 3VWRF31YX6M330145   Mileage: 137200km-85252miles
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Address 01: Engine        Labels: 06A-906-032-BGP.lbl
       Part No SW: 07K 906 032 B    HW: Hardware No 
       Component: R5              G   7828  
       Revision: --------    Serial number: VWZ5Z0F4238213
       Coding: 0000003
       Shop #: WSC 00066 000 00000
       VCID: 285F26CC98028B06E2-5140
    
    No fault code found.
    Readiness: 0110 1101
    
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Address 02: Auto Trans        Labels: 09G-927-750.clb
       Part No SW: 09G 927 750 CG    HW: 09G 927 750 CG
       Component: AQ 250 6F           0759  
       Revision: 00H27000    Serial number:               
       Coding: 0000008
       Shop #: WSC 00000 000 00000
       VCID: 78FF368C0822DB86B2-5140
    
    No fault code found.
    
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Address 03: ABS Brakes        Labels: 1C0-907-37x-ESP-F.lbl
       Part No: 1C0 907 379 Q
       Component: ESP FRONT MK60      0101  
       Coding: 0019978
       Shop #: WSC 00066 000 00000
       VCID: 387FF68C48A21B8672-5140
    
    No fault code found.
    
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Address 15: Airbags        Labels: 1T0-909-605.lbl
       Part No: 6Q0 909 605 AL
       Component: 01 AIRBAG VW71      0811  
       Coding: 0012337
       Shop #: WSC 00066 000 00000
       VCID: 01095B685BF89A4E85-5140
    
       Subsystem 1 - Part No: 1C0 959 339 F
       Component: BF-Gewichtsens. 006 0007
    
    No fault code found.
    
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Address 17: Instruments        Labels: None
       Part No: 1C0 920 501 T
       Component: KOMBI+WEGFAHRS. M73 V01  
       Coding: 11234
       Shop #: WSC 25096  
       VCID: 295923C8D308B20EFD-4AE8
    
    No fault code found.
    
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Address 19: CAN Gateway        Labels: 6N0-909-901-19.lbl
       Part No: 6N0 909 901 
       Component: Gateway K<->CAN    V012  
       Coding: 00006
       Shop #: WSC 00066  
       VCID: 70EF0EAC305283C67A-4B00
    
    No fault code found.
    
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Address 25: Immobilizer        Labels: 1C0-920-xxx-25.clb
       Part No SW: 1C0 920 501 T    HW: 1C0 920 501 T
       Component: IMMO                X007  
       Revision: xxxxxxxx    Serial number: VWZ5Z0F4238213
       Shop #: WSC 25096 444 85853
       VCID: 295923C88308B20EFD-5140
    
    No fault code found.
    
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Address 26: Auto Roof        Labels: 1Y0-959-255-HYD.lbl
       Part No: 1Y0 959 255 C
       Component:  VSG  NBC           3601  
       Shop #: WSC 00000 000 00000
       VCID: 408F9E6C10725346CA-5124
    
    No fault code found.
    
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Address 46: Central Conv.        Labels: 1C0-959-799.lbl
       Part No: 1C0 959 799 G
       Component: 6J Komfortgerát HLO 0004  
       Coding: 00256
       Shop #: WSC 00066  
       VCID: 3B75E9802994309E9F-4B00
    
       Subsystem 1 - Part No: 1Y1959801C
       Component: 6J Tőrsteuer.FS KLO 0005  
    
       Subsystem 2 - Part No: 1Y1959802D
       Component: 6J Tőrsteuer.BF KLO 0005  
    
       Subsystem 3 - Part No: 1Y0959811
       Component: 6J Tőrsteuer.HL KLO 0005  
    
       Subsystem 4 - Part No: 1Y0959812
       Component: 6J Tőrsteuer.HR KLO 0005  
    
    No fault code found.
    
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Address 56: Radio        Labels: 1J0-035-18x-56.lbl
       Part No: 1C0 035 196 BP
       Component:  RADIO DE2         0006  
       Coding: 06031
       Shop #: WSC 00066  
       VCID: 6ED310D42A66953668-51B6
    
    No fault code found.
    
    End-------------------------(Elapsed Time: 03:59)--------------------------
    Please be sure your VCDS system is configured with a valid tester #, WSC and importer ID.
    Used default entries on "Coding" page. Was not sure what valid tester was. WSC left at 00066. Said coding accepted.

    Thanks!
    Last edited by Uwe; 11-14-2017 at 03:08 PM. Reason: CODE tags

  6. #6
    NostraJackAss Jack@European_Parts's Avatar
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    Please change WSC to something other than 00066
    European Parts Emporium/Performance / Immobilizer Solutions LLC
    Certified Master Trained ASE/SAE/NASTF Legal Factory Authorized/Licensed GeKo/FaZit # 403738
    Specializing in Custom Services IE: "welding-fabrication" / EPA-SMOG Update or Pass-Thru-Programming / Data Transfer / Immobilizers & OEM Quality Parts

    www.FixMyEuro.com <<<<<CLICK HERE! or vwemporium@aol.com ( JPPSG & Unverified members need not PM me & Please don't email for free tech support...use the forum )
    Getting you CONTROL again of your property - TAKE IT! In Conjunction with.........

  7. #7
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    Will do.

    On another note. Disassembled all SAI system components. Verified piping was not clogged and valve operated correctly. Passed air through valve as output test was conducted. Even ran engine with all components removed to verify exhaust was present where piping connects to cylinder head.

    Disconnected B1S1 O2 sensor in effort to see if fault code is received for bad O2 sensor. Code received for O2 heater disconnected but that's all. B1S1 impedance and voltage did not change from previous scans. How is that possible?

  8. #8
    NostraJackAss Jack@European_Parts's Avatar
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    On another note. Disassembled all SAI system components. Verified piping was not clogged and valve operated correctly. Passed air through valve as output test was conducted. Even ran engine with all components removed to verify exhaust was present where piping connects to cylinder head.
    What about from the head ports to the combi is that clear too?


    Disconnected B1S1 O2 sensor in effort to see if fault code is received for bad O2 sensor. Code received for O2 heater disconnected but that's all. B1S1 impedance and voltage did not change from previous scans. How is that possible
    I know it makes you kind of wonder now doesn't it?

    Nevertheless the aforementioned in last post is required.............
    European Parts Emporium/Performance / Immobilizer Solutions LLC
    Certified Master Trained ASE/SAE/NASTF Legal Factory Authorized/Licensed GeKo/FaZit # 403738
    Specializing in Custom Services IE: "welding-fabrication" / EPA-SMOG Update or Pass-Thru-Programming / Data Transfer / Immobilizers & OEM Quality Parts

    www.FixMyEuro.com <<<<<CLICK HERE! or vwemporium@aol.com ( JPPSG & Unverified members need not PM me & Please don't email for free tech support...use the forum )
    Getting you CONTROL again of your property - TAKE IT! In Conjunction with.........

  9. #9
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    My engine is a 2.5 liter. Have read reference to a combi valve but understand that type of hardware is different than mine. I do have the valve but is electrically actuated and not by vacuum.
    My understanding my be totally wrong but it just a name and essentially does the same thing. When I disassembled all the hardware associated with SAI system, this included piping from "combi" valve to two "head" ports on either side of head (exhaust side). Engine was started and I could feel exhaust coming from these two openings which told me opening was clear of debris. Guess air pump must overcome exhaust pressure.

    My wife got home too late yesterday. Will re-code per your instructions soon and post.

  10. #10
    NostraJackAss Jack@European_Parts's Avatar
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    10-4

    Just trying to be sure the paths are clear that's all.

    To reiterate ............

    Part No SW: 07K 906 032 B HW: Hardware No
    Component: R5 G 7828 <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<Firmware update needed 9940 or higher after dropped part # supersession on SVM!
    Revision: -------- Serial number: VWZ5Z0F4238213
    Coding: 0000003
    Shop #: WSC 00066 000 00000
    European Parts Emporium/Performance / Immobilizer Solutions LLC
    Certified Master Trained ASE/SAE/NASTF Legal Factory Authorized/Licensed GeKo/FaZit # 403738
    Specializing in Custom Services IE: "welding-fabrication" / EPA-SMOG Update or Pass-Thru-Programming / Data Transfer / Immobilizers & OEM Quality Parts

    www.FixMyEuro.com <<<<<CLICK HERE! or vwemporium@aol.com ( JPPSG & Unverified members need not PM me & Please don't email for free tech support...use the forum )
    Getting you CONTROL again of your property - TAKE IT! In Conjunction with.........

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