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Thread: Leak in Air Intake with Lean at Idle and EVAP

  1. #11
    NostraJackAss Jack@European_Parts's Avatar
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    Now Uwe will always be impressed with good charts like a moth to a light .....me I prefer raw numbers and actual mechanicals done.

    OBD data means nothing to me if basics of mechanicals are yet or failed to be performed first, otherwise everything on the tables are potentially tilted to a degree and with adaption or in some cases FOD rogue stack code!

    Otherwise a great post and I agree most likely a vacuum leak...........

    Negating basics is very bad before using such data to me........
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  3. #12
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    Jack, thanks for your reply. Basically, the car been for inspection at repair service twice, with no physical/mechanical results of an issue. In my personal opinion it is not correct behaviour to change random parts from a guess, well, maybe it will do the trick this time. Or at least, even if it is a good workflow, it is not to my taste. For now I have three suggestions:

    1. Change vapor canister pressure switch and expect this to solve itself, due to failing EVAP - Cheapest guess
    2. Change O2 sensors, just in case they are failing. Only a plain guess
    3. Remove fuel tank and look for any clogged/damaged lines. Full day of work



    Accordingly, I thought to dig into the data in case some failing condition can be spotted. Meaning, with my lack of knowledge in diagnostics, chances are not that high. I could and will try to review the potential leaks once again, but until this happens - data mining in the process

    With that said, it seems reasonable to look into the data this way.

    For example, if, under throttle, long term fuel mixture drops drastically, and on idle comes back to its highs - it should mean something.
    If voltage is at the lower point than it should be - this indicates something as well. What actually? Who knows
    If there is a leakage recognition from oxygen sensors, why not to understand what it does and why?

    At least I think it should be guides out of this, leading to a problem cause. Simple IF/ELSE conditions and cases. And then, these could be reviewed and inspected mechanically (hopefully)

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  5. #13
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    When you had the software update done from Audi, did you leave it standard or did you have the Remap put back on straight away?

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  7. #14
    NostraJackAss Jack@European_Parts's Avatar
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    Jack, thanks for your reply. Basically, the car been for inspection at repair service twice, with no physical/mechanical results of an issue. In my personal opinion it is not correct behaviour to change random parts from a guess, well, maybe it will do the trick this time. Or at least, even if it is a good workflow, it is not to my taste. For now I have three suggestions:



    1. Change vapor canister pressure switch and expect this to solve itself, due to failing EVAP - Cheapest guess
    2. Change O2 sensors, just in case they are failing. Only a plain guess
    3. Remove fuel tank and look for any clogged/damaged lines. Full day of work




    Accordingly, I thought to dig into the data in case some failing condition can be spotted. Meaning, with my lack of knowledge in diagnostics, chances are not that high. I could and will try to review the potential leaks once again, but until this happens - data mining in the process

    With that said, it seems reasonable to look into the data this way.

    For example, if, under throttle, long term fuel mixture drops drastically, and on idle comes back to its highs - it should mean something.
    If voltage is at the lower point than it should be - this indicates something as well. What actually? Who knows
    If there is a leakage recognition from oxygen sensors, why not to understand what it does and why?

    At least I think it should be guides out of this, leading to a problem cause. Simple IF/ELSE conditions and cases. And then, these could be reviewed and inspected mechanically (hopefully)


    I am not implying such a thing & when the OBD doesn't steer you to the fault being absolute, mechanical tests are what are used to determine a problem to a system by "testing", not changing parts just to see.

    No substitute for basics ..........

    OBD is a guide and often leads people the wrong way due to lack of ability to understand it or when failing to do basic mechanical tests to cross check the OBD data as observed.
    European Parts Emporium/Performance / Immobilizer Solutions LLC
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  9. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gary View Post
    When you had the software update done from Audi, did you leave it standard or did you have the Remap put back on straight away?
    To my understanding, Audi updated software and remap is left as it was, unchanged. I can say this, as the health/response from the car didn’t changed.

    Also, I contacted remappers and they said it should not be related. Should I insist for a re-check?


    Jack - I got your point and completely agree with you. Just if few checks didn’t helped, I look for other solutions, as otherwise I would be banging head into the wall, hehe!
    Last edited by T10; 10-13-2017 at 06:42 PM.

  10. #16
    NostraJackAss Jack@European_Parts's Avatar
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    What is the status of the TV at idle and idle offset mechanically in relation to TPS reporting in the ECU blocks?

    Have you isolate all zones during idle to verify they are not compromised by crimping off all?

    If all zones are crimped off and TV is okay than intake is leaking at gasket or by means of PCV.

    If fault goes away at idle with zones crimped off, then isolate one by until lean error reoccurs.

    Not rocket science, no fancy charts needs, no smoking mirror either...........don't over think it.

    Cost is TIME!

    KISS the JPPSG!


    Car came in this week .........from two shops and dealer.......... looked at for a misfire in # 1 on a CBUA 5 zyl.

    All 3 said that the engine had compression in # 1 and within a few pounds of the respective other zyl's.

    I do a test and it's at 70 PSI running!!!!! WTF!
    So I take out second compression tester to cross check it and it was right at 70 PSI and others are at 160.....so I know I am right.
    European Parts Emporium/Performance / Immobilizer Solutions LLC
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    www.FixMyEuro.com <<<<<CLICK HERE! or vwemporium@aol.com ( JPPSG & Unverified members need not PM me & Please don't email for free tech support...use the forum )
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  12. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack@European_Parts View Post


    Car came in this week .........from two shops and dealer.......... looked at for a misfire in # 1 on a CBUA 5 zyl.

    All 3 said that the engine had compression in # 1 and within a few pounds of the respective other zyl's.

    I do a test and it's at 70 PSI running!!!!! WTF!
    So I take out second compression tester to cross check it and it was right at 70 PSI and others are at 160.....so I know I am right.
    I thought this was going to be one of those jokes "three men walk into a bar" etc etc so on so forth and what have you.

  13. #18
    NostraJackAss Jack@European_Parts's Avatar
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    Nope..... not a joke.
    It makes me sad but it hits home for this thread, further needing a KISS on basic mechanicals.
    European Parts Emporium/Performance / Immobilizer Solutions LLC
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  14. #19
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    Hello guys,

    hope you missed me, hehe! Basically, during these two weeks another one leak inspection been made without any proper results. Accordingly, decided to change that pressure switch on vapor canister, since it was malfunctioning.

    Results?


    After filing the fuel tank, the same, do not want to start remains (no matter whether you add just few litters of fuel or up to the full tank). After replacing that switch, I might say that car became a bit more responsive to the throttle on lower RPM than it was before.

    However, leakage and high RPM on idle still there. Lean condition still haven't appeared, but its just a matter of time I guess.

    MY QUESTION IS - can this non starting problem be related with the air leakage? How it could be possible to nail down the cause of that rough start after the fill? What to look for, fuel delivery, some vacuum lines?

    Jack - some answers from my end.

    What is the status of the TV at idle and idle offset mechanically in relation to TPS reporting in the ECU blocks?
    I am not sure how TV could be offset mechanically, since TV is electronic, without a wire? TV at idle, when it is running rough increases/decreases when checking through Measuring Blocks. However, I am not certain this is what I should have looked for, in regards to your suggestion.

    Have you isolate all zones during idle to verify they are not compromised by crimping off all?
    If all zones are crimped off and TV is okay than intake is leaking at gasket or by means of PCV.
    If fault goes away at idle with zones crimped off, then isolate one by until lean error reoccurs.
    The main problem is that unsteady idle is only for a particular amount of time - meaning, after some idle time it settles down. The only difference in the lean/rich condition I noticed was when a line to N80 was crimped off, lean went down twice in that case. On the other hand, with zones crimped off - and TV is okay - how OK is estimated in this case - no pulse, steady?

    Thank you!
    Last edited by T10; 10-26-2017 at 05:24 PM.

  15. #20
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    Fuel Filling

    Hello guys,

    I have one questions, in regards to fuel filling. The car fuel tank should be 61L, while I never had a chance to fill it somewhat close to that value.

    There was few times when I was running on a reserve for 30km, meaning there were not too much left in the tank. And in such cases, I was able to fill no more than 50L of fuel. Since I am having fuel filling problem and none inspections helped till this point, I logged the fuel filling.



    Few things:
    1. Why there could be an area in the middle, when no action is logged?
    2. What could be the reason (is it normal like that) that fuel filling ends after 56L, and then abruptly changes to 61L, aka full tank?
    3. Can first two be related?


    When fuel filling, I fill up to the click and do not add up on top. Just wondering, maybe this could illustrate the reason why I can't start up after fuel fill.

    Accordingly, it spins for 6-10s, and then runs as harsh as it can + white fumes + rough idle.

    Thanks.

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