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Thread: EV Thread

  1. #11
    Verified VCDS User vreihen's Avatar
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    Movie theater? Are those still in business? Over-priced popcorn, sticky floors, lines at the bathroom, no pause/rewind button? No, thank you.

    I don't know if you have ever seen this web site before, but their monthly fee is less than a bucket of stale popcorn at the old-fashioned moving pictures show:

    http://www.netflix.com/

    (I have personally never used the service, so I can't comment on how well it works. I don't have the attention span to watch even a 1/2 hour TV show straight through.)

    Seriously though, we have a local restaurant catering to the $100K+ per year crowd that has a few Tesla charging stations in their parking lot. Given the current status symbol price of a Tesla, it seems like a good match for a restaurant that has a huge wine cellar to create an environment where the 25%'ers can enjoy a 2-hour meal with a bottle of wine while their car charges outside...DUI issue aside.

    Is it worth splitting this discussion off into a new EV thread?????

  2. #12
    Benevolent Dictator Uwe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vreihen View Post
    Is it worth splitting this discussion off into a new EV thread?????
    Not a terrible idea.

    For Posterity: Split from Page 90 of Random Videos.

    -Uwe-
    The engineering problems are likely insurmountable. It would be like proposing to land a rocket booster section on a barge floating in the middle of the ocean.

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  4. #13
    Verified VCDS User vreihen's Avatar
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    Since I know that a few people at RT have prior experience with stuff bigger than TTL circuits, can you please check my math here?

    Per the reports of Tesla owners and VW's e-Golf specs, it appears that the current status quo is an average draw of 300 watt*hours per mile over a typical driving cycle between recharges.

    For the e-Golf:

    Mk1 battery = 24.2 kWh for 83 miles, or 292 watt*hours per mile.
    Mk2 battery = 35.8 kWh for 124 miles, or 289 watt*hours per mile.

    For argument sake, let's just use 300 watt*hours per mile.

    What I'm trying to do is get a napkin-math estimate of the instantaneous power needed to keep an EV moving at 60 MPH...which was chosen because it is one mile per minute and also a reasonable highway speed. Is the math as simple as this?

    300 watt*hours / 0.01667 (minutes per hour) = 18,000 watts

    Am I making a mistake or losing some units somewhere?

    We don't know how much extra power will be needed to also tow a 1,500 pound generator behind an RV, but I'm thinking that 20-25 kW of generator is enough to cut the battery recovery times down to a usual 15-minute pee stop every few hours:



    I believe that this particular unit is single phase, but there are multi-phase towables available.

    Now, how do we get 20kW into the car? SAE J1772-2009? CCS with DC? Anderson connector?????

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  6. #14
    Verified VCDS User vreihen's Avatar
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    Going native DC on an e-Golf, the battery pack is 323 volts (middle of the CCS DC charging voltage spec):

    http://www.triplepundit.com/2014/10/...ings-lined-up/

    The e-Golf battery is comprised of 264 individual prismatic cells, which are integrated into 27 modules for a nominal voltage of 323 volts.
    I take it that this is beyond the safe range for speaker wire and paper masking tape insulation (*) over the splices.....

    (*) Believe it or not, I spent an entire day back in the 1990's cleaning up a local high school's solar race car -- where they used coils of speaker wire between the solar panels, and had paper masking tape as the insulation on every terminal in the 72 volt @ god knows how many amps drivetrain power system. When I got done, the range went up from 13 miles to 24 miles per charge!

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  8. #15
    Benevolent Dictator Uwe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vreihen View Post
    300 watt*hours / 0.01667 (minutes per hour) = 18,000 watts
    That sounds about right. It doesn't take all that much power to keep a reasonably aerodynamic car moving at 60 mph on a flat road, which is why I suggested 25 kW gen set some posts back.

    I also don't think a gen-set like that needs to weigh 1500 lbs. How much does an old Rabbit Diesel engine weigh? It's gotta be a whole lot less than that. I think those made what, 50hp? An engine like that should be good for 25-30 kW easily.
    The engineering problems are likely insurmountable. It would be like proposing to land a rocket booster section on a barge floating in the middle of the ocean.

  9. #16
    Verified VCDS User vreihen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uwe View Post
    I also don't think a gen-set like that needs to weigh 1500 lbs. How much does an old Rabbit Diesel engine weigh? It's gotta be a whole lot less than that. I think those made what, 50hp? An engine like that should be good for 25-30 kW easily.
    I was looking at the commercial/construction lines, and they use Isuzu diesels and tip the scales at over 2,500 pounds. That's the magic cutoff line for needing trailer brakes in many states, with New Yorkistan being more strict with a 2,000+ pound trailer brake requirement and a prohibition against tongue-mounted surge brakes.

    On a side note, I just realized that I would be tapping out the limits on my 100 amp home power service to quick-charge an EV...and I'm getting too old for climbing up a utility pole every night to clamp my jumper cables onto the primary wires.....

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  11. #17
    NostraJackAss Jack@European_Parts's Avatar
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    WhisperWATT......... By far the best and most quiet gen sets....outside of Lister & with a TDI engine.

    https://www.google.com/search?q=whis...w=1708&bih=778
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    Specializing in Custom Services IE: "welding-fabrication" / EPA-SMOG Update or Pass-Thru-Programming / Data Transfer / Immobilizers & OEM Quality Parts

    www.FixMyEuro.com <<<<<CLICK HERE! or vwemporium@aol.com ( JPPSG & Unverified members need not PM me & Please don't email for free tech support...use the forum )
    Getting you CONTROL again of your property - TAKE IT! In Conjunction with.........

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    Verified VCDS User NZDubNurd's Avatar
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    Sooo... if the genset is towed behind the car... does the genset have to comply with emmissions standards?

    It's not actually part of the vehicle, is it?

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  14. #19
    Verified VCDS User PetrolDave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vreihen View Post
    On a side note, I just realized that I would be tapping out the limits on my 100 amp home power service to quick-charge an EV...and I'm getting too old for climbing up a utility pole every night to clamp my jumper cables onto the primary wires.....
    In all the homes I've lived in here in the UK our "company fuse" (i.e. the incoming power feed fuse) has been 60A, albeit that we have a nominal 230V supply.

    Don't some of the fastest chargers need a 3-phase supply? I don't know of any homes in the UK that have a 3-phase supply, that's limited to business premises only - so the cost of installing a 3-phase supply would be enormous since a new cable would need to be run back to the nearest transformer/switching station.

    Makes the economics of EVs very questionable for the country, and that's without taking into account the enormous increase in generating capacity that will be required. Yes I know that EV chargers are often IoT devices so can be controlled and charging scheduled to limit peak demand on the utility companies, but once someone finds out they can disable that then they're going to permanently disable scheduled charging - nobody wants to be unsure if/when their EV will be charged do they? It should just charge when you plug it in, right?

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  16. #20
    Benevolent Dictator Uwe's Avatar
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    Most modern US homes have 200A service @240V. It's coming off a transformer with a center-tapped secondary coil, and the center tap is grounded, thus producing two 120V (relative to earth) legs that are 180 degrees out-of-phase. This gives us normal wall outlets at 120V, but also the availability of 240V for heavy loads such as electric clothes dryers, electric stoves, HVAC compressors, and so on.

    For typical commuter and grocery-getter use, were someone would plug in their EV in their own garage overnight, that's more than adequate to get a full charge by morning. There's also plenty of spare capacity available on the grid late at night and into the wee hours.

    Thus, I think you'd only need the really fast chargers for applications like road trips, where the distance being driven in a day exceeds the range available from a single charge. But that's relatively rare. Most people simply do not drive more than 100-150 miles a day in their daily routine, and a car with 200+ miles of range on a single charge would cover 90+% of their needs.
    The engineering problems are likely insurmountable. It would be like proposing to land a rocket booster section on a barge floating in the middle of the ocean.

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