Vehicle Diagnostic Protection SFD

[Andymod]

Hi, I have a Hex Can interface which has given excellent service for many years, I now need to upgrade to a new interface. My question is. With Volkswagen about to launch Vehicle Diagnostic Protection on all new models starting with Golf 8 will the latest interface work on these vehicles?.

 

[Uwe]

We are not in a position to make any guarantees of functionality on those cars yet.

-Uwe-

 

[Andymod]

Thanks for the prompt reply. Hopefully it will

 

[DV52]

^^^Andy: Hi. "Diagnostic Protection" ? - I like words that conjure-up secret stuff!

There is already an active form of "Diagnostic Protection" on the current mk7 and mk7.5 Golf- like SA s, gibberish channel descriptors, unconfirmed long code software switches, Component Protection architecture etc.

What does this term mean for Golf mk8 - or to be more accurate, what do you understand by this term when applied to the next generation Golf?

Don

 

[Uwe]

What does this term mean for Golf mk8 - or to be more accurate, what do you understand by this term when applied to the next generation Golf?

My third-hand understanding of it is that it works like the gateway on late-model Audis, which blocks all "write access" to the the systems in the vehicle, but instead of just having to open the vehicle's hood to allow such access, some interaction with VWAG's servers is required.

-Uwe-

 

[DV52]

^^^ thanks Uwe - sounds suspiciously like a thinly veiled, anti-competitive mechanism whose real purpose is to further embed Dealers into ALL aspects of post sales servicing. This makes diesel-gate look like an unintentional misdemeanor!

I thought that CP was devious enough - but at least on some level, the facility it can be argued as addressing the black market for stolen parts. Diagnostic Protection (as explained) appears to "protect" a single entity - and it ain't the consumer!!!

What is the "after-market" part of the car industry doing about this outrage?

Don

 

[Rollux]

We have had an email from Bosch saying on their newer KTS series the Mercedes, BMW & FCA brands will be useable due to co-operation from these groups. However, KTS users will need to register on the appropriate manufacturers site and enter login details to be able to access the security gateway and carry out diagnosis etc.

So seems to me that they will lock it down to "approved" vendors equipment only.

 

[Antera]

I already connected to 2 Golf 8 but i can't change anything yet. It needs for every module a inlogcode wich is not the previous ones. I have full scan from every module incl the autoscan. But that's it.

Most off the adaption from 09 and 5F for instant are almost the same as the Golf 7 with a few changes. I talked with the engineering from the local VW garage and they tell me that there wil be a few people from every dealer who gets registrerd for coding on the new Golf. every thing they do will me monitored by VW. Every code the put in the car the free a option will be done with Odis and will be noted on the cars chassis. so when there is something wrong everything could be traced the a certain person and so on.


Iff there is anyone interested in those files let me now

 

[darkchina811]

I believe we're all curious, aren't we? you could post the scans into the non-broken section

 

[Uwe]

I believe we're all curious, aren't we? you could post the scans into the non-broken section

I'm not sure he means he connected with VCDS.

-Uwe-

 

[Andymod]

Hi Don,Sorry my understanding at present is that once set up with the necessary permission by the importer, a security token must be requested via portal before starting a Diagnostic session with Odis. I haven't been setup yet and we are not expecting the Golf 8 for a few months yet. Info is very scarce at the minute but it appears that very little if anything will be possible without the token.

 

[Jacek]

Why there is no public ver. beta (can I request access), and when will the official new version be released?

 

[PetrolDave]

Why there is no public ver. beta (can I request access), and when will the official new version be released?

Ross-Tech do extensive internal alpha testing and only release a beta when they are sure that it won't cause significant issues, rest assured that when it's stable enough there WILL be a beta version on their website.

 

[Antera]

I'm testing now to try to get acces to the car that is the reason why i can have autoscan and so on. Iff there is happening something to the car there is a way to put it back to factory for me. Iff it's stable I assume ross-tech will release this version.

 

[Detlef Trapp]

http://www.vag-com-espanol.com/EN_SFD-Manual_for_UMB.pdf

 

[DV52]

http://www.vag-com-espanol.com/EN_SFD-Manual_for_UMB.pdf

Detief: thanks for the detailed document - the opening paragraph is telling:

The aim of SFD
Product analyses in the VW Group have shown that there is an increased requirement for protection of data in vehicles. This is also the case for Vehicle Diagnostic Protection. The previous procedure (activation of security access by way of a 5-digit login code) no longer conforms to the state of the art.​

Very little detail at all to justify the introduction of SFD and from the omission, a palpable sense that VAG doesn't consider justification is needed!

Because I don't use ODIS, I don't know if the protocol described in the document is much of a departure from what happens now - but what is of more interest is how this affects independent diagnostic devices. At face value, no more SA sounds good -but overall, it seems a fairly parlous situation for post MY20 vehicles. But I'm probably catastrophiising (at least I hope that I am)

Don

 

[darkchina811]

of course VAG is selling it like there is an increased need of protection, but it is obviously bullshit. they want to monopolize service and, even more, kill the retrofit business.

I can sum it all up with only two words: it sucks.

a much fairer move would have been to introduce Component Protection for all modules in the vehicle.

 

[DV52]

a much fairer move would have been to introduce Component Protection for all modules in the vehicle.

Now there's an interesting concept :"Fairer"? When was "fairness" ever a corporate driver for business decisions (it's an oxymoron)!


Ain't the web a fantastic resource!! At least one well-known, third-party manufacturer of diagnostic equipment (won't name) has maybe found a work-around for SFD (perhaps - not sure what "Autodetection" actually does on my cable because I don't have access to MQB37W vehicle)

.....System 8.7.3 is ready for download
Created: 03 February 2020

News:
.......does not need administrator rights to run anymore.
Data update
timing fixes
Autodetection for new SFD (SchutzFahrzeugDiagnose) feature introduced in MQB2020 platform (currently Golf VIII and Skoda Octavia IV)

... and confidence from another well-known, third party manufacturer of diagnostic equipment (won't name) that their products also can be modified to work with SFD.

Hi, I can confirm that........ and all other third party diagnostic tools will not work with latest vag vehicles. As we have official license with VW AG we already have all documentation how to integrate SFD into our diagnostic system, but there are still a lot of questions about that to start implementation process. Communication with them are very slow so I can't provide any eta when we will be ready for that. I will provide more information when we get it explained by Volkswagen AG.

So, perhaps SFD is not so catastrophic after all - maybe?

Don

 

[Detlef Trapp]

hmm..... well at least one well-known, third-party manufacturer of diagnostic equipment (won't name) has maybe found a work-around for SFD (perhaps - not sure what "Autodetection" actually does because I don't have access to MQB37W vehicle)

Don

I don't think they found a work-around, they say they can detect it - which should be easy just reading the VIN - and administrator rights refer to Windows OS

 

[Danners74]

Thanks UWE for redirecting me here. I think on a personal note it has a lot to do with the function on demand stuff that's slowly being phased in??? For example. Cars with LED lights have the capability of upgrading to Matrix or Matrix HD and you can pay for the update which would be via the dealer network. Thus coding anything via VCDS is restricted?

Just a thought...…...perhaps?

Regards and stay safe out there you beautiful people.